Those who sort primers by weight...

[PatMiles]

Something that struck me about some of the previous comments, is that sometimes we fail to realize that not everyone on this AccurateShooter site is concerned with getting the Nth degree of accuracy out of their equipment.

Lane

Nobody is forcing the non-competitive shooters to weigh their primers. Nobody is forcing the non-competitive shooters to even read the threads regarding the weighing of primers!

 

[BKA]

I understand why there would be a vertical spread but I don't understand why the horizontal spread was so big.

In effect, the detonation of the primer also acts as a small part of the powder charge.
As a result, the tune changes with a different brand and/or weight of primer, and the bullet dispersion is different.

 

[round]

Has anyone done any testing inside a building or test tunnel to eliminate environmental conditions ?

Are barrel temperatures monitored and stable between each shot ?

How about a test barrel mounted securely to a bench ?

 

[Jack Neary]

Small sample size I know but I just sorted 100 GM205M primers and here's the distribution:

3.61-3.63gr - 18
3.64-3.65gr - 26
3.66gr - 31
3.67-3.70gr -25

What level of granularity would you use to sort these?

There is a large cluster there between 3.64 and 3.67 but the total variance is only ~.1gr.

Where does the variance show up on target @ 600-1000yds?

I would like to know if the juice is worth the squeeze.

Please don't waste your time weighing your primers....
Use that time to go to the range and practice in the wind and learn to tune your rifle by adjusting your powder charge for various wind conditions!
Just sayin....
Jack

 

[BKA]

Please don't waste your time weighing your primers....
Use that time to go to the range and practice in the wind and learn to tune your rifle by adjusting your powder charge for various wind conditions!
Just sayin....
Jack

In effect, the detonation of the primer also acts as a small part of the powder charge.
As a result, the tune changes with a different brand and/or weight of primer.

 

[jelenko]

Nobody is forcing the non-competitive shooters to weigh their primers. Nobody is forcing the non-competitive shooters to even read the threads regarding the weighing of primers!

There are plenty of competitors on here that compete in disciplines that don't require the Nth degree of accuracy.

How does anyone know for which discipline the post is about if the poster doesn't say in the post?

There's also plenty of people here that don't need the accuracy but are new enough to not know => once again it would be really helpful if people included the discipline they are addressing in their posts.

 

[jelenko]

In effect, the detonation of the primer also acts as a small part of the powder charge.
As a result, the tune changes with a different brand and/or weight of primer.

Maybe. But a Benchrest Hall of Fame shooter doesn't think it's worth it.

 

[quest450]

Maybe. But a SHORT RANGE Benchrest Hall of Fame shooter doesn't think it's worth it.

fixed it for you.....you're welcome

 

[BKA]

All due respect to Jack Neary, he's earned it, but credentials do not change physics.
There is a plethora of data indicating heavier primers increase velocity with ALL other factors being the same. Whether velocity changes of different weight primers has any impact on the game you're playing will vary.....in my experience.....the farther you stretch it out 600-1000+....the more it matters. Go ahead and don't sort primers, leave that element of consistency on the table, I love competing at distance with those who don't sort primers

 

[jelenko]

All due respect to Jack Neary, he's earned it, but credentials do not change physics.
There is a plethora of data indicating heavier primers increase velocity with ALL other factors being the same. Whether velocity changes of different weight primers has any impact on the game you're playing will vary.....in my experience.....the farther you stretch it out 600-1000+....the more it matters. Go ahead and don't sort primers, leave that element of consistency on the table, I love competing at distance with those who don't sort primers

Right. So, for what discipline? For example, for cross the course, we do not need to sort primers for our 600 yard targets.

 

[Larry Koch]

Yesterday had some free time, like everyday. So I sat on the porch and watched the grass grow, something you Northern folk can't do now. Much more productive than sorting primers, first what are you sorting variations in the cups, or do you think from your sciencific test under a microscope. That there can be that much difference in the thickness in primer compound to affect weight?

 

[Pete Wass]

All due respect to Jack Neary, he's earned it, but credentials do not change physics.
There is a plethora of data indicating heavier primers increase velocity with ALL other factors being the same. Whether velocity changes of different weight primers has any impact on the game you're playing will vary.....in my experience.....the farther you stretch it out 600-1000+....the more it matters. Go ahead and don't sort primers, leave that element of consistency on the table, I love competing at distance with those who don't sort primers

I've asked a lot of times, how much deviation is acceptable? We all know that different weights of powder result in different FPS but at what point does any of it really matter to small group or hitting the dot in score shooting, 2 FPS, 12 FPS, 20 FPS? Everything matters so the trick is to figure out which ones are worth spending a lot of time and money on, in my view. I don't know if Jack throws charges still but if he is then he must have decided at some point he didn't need exact powder charges to make tiny holes and the same is true for primer weights and thickness.

Me, for instance, years ago I decided cartridge cases were simply a container to hold the things that really matter. With all the testing I have done throughout the years, It has always been Powder charge and seating depth that made the accuracy. I still feel that way so I am fanatical about exact weight of powder and exact overall length of loaded rounds. My testing has always told me I was on the right road.

 

[Straightshooter1]

I've asked a lot of times, how much deviation is acceptable? We all know that different weights of powder result in different FPS but at what point does any of it really matter to small group or hitting the dot in score shooting, 2 FPS, 12 FPS, 20 FPS? Everything matters so the trick is to figure out which ones are worth spending a lot of time and money on, in my view. I don't know if Jack throws charges still but if he is then he must have decided at some point he didn't need exact powder charges to make tiny holes and the same is true for primer weights and thickness.

Me, for instance, years ago I decided cartridge cases were simply a container to hold the things that really matter. With all the testing I have done throughout the years, It has always been Powder charge and seating depth that made the accuracy. I still feel that way so I am fanatical about exact weight of powder and exact overall length of loaded rounds. My testing has always told me I was on the right road.

Hmmm??? Are you sorting bullets by their OAL to get exact COAL's?

 

[JFrank]

The OP asked a question about sorting a component for 600 and 1000 yard shooting, I struggle to understand why anyone that doesn’t shoot those disciplines would reply with negative comments.
It just doesn’t make any sense, especially after guys that are successful in those disciplines post results in favor of doing so.
That would be as poorly received as myself telling a short range shooter that wind flags were a waist of time.

 

[quest450]

Can a few guys on this website that shoot at National events comment on your opinion on primers.

@Webster........they did, pay attention to posters like @tom, @Dave Way, @JFrank, @Mulligan, @Evan and few others, they all shoot 600 and 1K and compete at a high level

 

[jelenko]

The OP asked a question about sorting a component for 600 and 1000 yard shooting

Ah. Great point. I had forgotten he had included that.

 

[Killick]

CCI 450 & CCI BR sorted primers. One lot of 2900 and the other 8000 primers. All sorted on a Sartorius Entris scale, with a resolution of .002 grains. These were sorted using only the first two decimal places. The 450's varied from 3.59-3.78 grains, The BR's varied from 3.62-3.83 grains. The far left column is the percentage of each weight observed. I weigh powder charges to the kernel (.02 grains). There is no possible way that I will accept the primers to vary in "charge weight" by up to .29 grains. Yes, that would take some extremely bad luck, but any controllable variable should never be overlooked. And NO, the variations are NOT in the cups or anvils.

Lane

If you're going to SWN, say "Hi" if you see me.
Martin

 

[Pete Wass]

Hmmm??? Are you sorting bullets by their OAL to get exact COAL's?

No, I'm only interested in where the bullet will engage the throat when it is fired. I simply use a comparitor on a dial indicator to do that. And adjust the length with a micrometer seater after I have pulled the bullet a few thou if necessary

 

[Pete Wass]

The OP asked a question about sorting a component for 600 and 1000 yard shooting, I struggle to understand why anyone that doesn’t shoot those disciplines would reply with negative comments.
It just doesn’t make any sense, especially after guys that are successful in those disciplines post results in favor of doing so.
That would be as poorly received as myself telling a short range shooter that wind flags were a waist of time.

Any meaningful testing by Short Range folks stopped many years ago. they seem to rely on other things to satisfy them. I find it it interesting that people have actually taken the time and spent the money to shoot long strings varying neck tension by a thuou at a time to find the best neck tension and supply the colored graph to prove what they found. Short Ranger Benchrest hasn't ever done that in my 20 odd years

 

[JFrank]

@Pete Wass
We test all kinds of dumb stuff, some even matters while some things are just dumb.. but we do it anyway. lol