This Rifle won't Shoot! Diagnosing the issue(s).

[Idaho-Lefty]

While looking for copper, check for a carbon ring.

I Use Sweets or, Barnes C-10 to, Remove the Copper, First ( Soak for 20 Min's to Half Hour MAX ). .
THEN,. BoreTech Eliminator to, Clean Up, the "Throat",.. and, a Little JB's ( One way ) on a Bronze Brush, wouldn't, Hurt, either. ( Clean Thoroughly to, Get the JB's,.. OUT ! )
A Glass Bedded, H-S Precision Stock, IS on, my Most Accurate Rifle ( So Doubt that, the "problem" is, the Stock ).
Hopefully It's been Leveled and Bedded correctly,.. WITHOUT,. "Stress" !
My H-S stock, has been "Bedded" from, One inch of, the Barrels "Shank Portion" to, the Tang and lightly Torqued, and I use, Blue Loctite, on Screws.
I'm thinking that with, a CLEAN Barrel it's just Now,.. Find the Correct Bullet for the Twist and Do some Seating / Powder "Tuning" ,.. Good Luck !!

 

[jelenko]

The reason I never buy used rifles is you have no idea what the former owner has done to and with the rifle. After what I've seen at the range over many years, my position was only reinforced many folds

Same here - unless I know the habits of the current owner and they assure me of it's accuracy.

 

[jelenko]

Just a quick note: Running Iosso will *always* result in black patches, even on a squeaky-clean barrel.

This can be confirmed by rubbing a patch with Iosso on the outside of the barrel or just on a piece of steel.

 

[TheCZKid]

STOP!

Before you grind, Dremel, file, sand, chisel or do anything...check your neck clearance and chamber length.

I'm not sure about how to check my chamber length. And, what would I do with that information? I've formed brass and shot it, and as long as the brass is sized to this chamber, not sure what else I need to do. I have been working on figuring out the neck clearance, so I can get the optimal neck thickness for good bullet release. I suppose I could have a chamber cast done, that might answer lots of questions.

When you say, check neck clearance, I assume you mean diameter wise, not overall length of the brass?

 

[TheCZKid]

Just a quick note: Running Iosso will *always* result in black patches, even on a squeaky-clean barrel.

That's been my experience too.

I think it's close to clean, as I still get carbon on patches with Bore Tech solvent, so it's probably got some residual fouling in there somewhere. It feels a lot smoother, with patches down the bore, now compared to when I first got it and cleaned it.

I worked on the throat area too, should be no carbon ring now, though still can't actually see it with my scope.

I'm doing a soak with some Patch-Out right now, see if that helps with whatever might be lurking in the dark.

Does anyone know of a borescope that can go in a 17 caliber barrel with the 90 degree mirror? I tried a 3.9mm scope which only faced forward, it was useless for seeing any useful information about the barrel.

 

[TheCZKid]

Have you checked the twist to see that it is indeed the rate it is claimed to be ? Just mark a cleaning rod and see how far it goes down the barrel to make a 360 degree twist.

I did that again last night, and it twisted just slightly over 10.5" for one turn.

 

[TheCZKid]

Many great ideas to improve accuracy have not helped???

I don't recall checking bullet seating deapth and varying the numbers to improve accuracy???

Some believe that proper bullet seating deapth is as important as proper powder charge. Many Benchrest shooters adhere to this principle as well!!

Some gun/bullets like a jam and others like a jump.

Worth a try?????

CLP

I haven't gotten to the point of seating depth testing, as the groups have been so big, I thought changing bullets and powders the be my main priority. I don't know the freebore, so I have just stuck with suggested COAL numbers from the bullet makers for this caliber.

 

[AlNyhus]

I'm not sure about how to check my chamber length. And, what would I do with that information? I've formed brass and shot it, and as long as the brass is sized to this chamber, not sure what else I need to do. I have been working on figuring out the neck clearance, so I can get the optimal neck thickness for good bullet release. I suppose I could have a chamber cast done, that might answer lots of questions.

When you say, check neck clearance, I assume you mean diameter wise, not overall length of the brass?

Check your chamber length for:
1- The overall length of the chamber. This is to make sure the case mouth isn't bottoming out against the end of the neck area of the chamber when the bolt is closed.
2- Chamber neck diameter. This is to make sure you have sufficient clearance (between the neck diameter of a loaded round and the chambers neck diameter) for bullet release.

I've worked with a pretty fair number of .17's over the years. There was no 'standard' SAMMI-ish Mach IV chamber until the Remington 17 Fireball came into existence. Hands down, the Mach IV's were the worst for reamer variations. Some reamers were made for 'no turn' necks on Rem 221 Fireball brass, some were neck turned specs, some were for reformed 222 cases...you name it.

Bottom line is that you have to know what your particular chamber is.

I've run all your numbers with the various bullet you used through the JBM stability program. I suggest you do the same.

 

[blades]

make a chamber cast so you know what you got.

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

I don't recall Lilja offering any barrels slower than 1/10" in 17 cal centerfire.

 

[dfrosch]

Some of those bullet holes aren't round.

 

[TheCZKid]

Looks like a trip to my local gunsmith might be in my plans, see if he can give me some help.

The barrel is marked Lilja on the side, but yes, it appears it's 10.5 twist, and this gun was made about 20+ years ago.

 

[TheCZKid]

Some of those bullet holes aren't round.

At least one is two bullets in one hole, the problem is the 3rd is not close to those two!

 

[AlNyhus]

I don't recall Lilja offering any barrels slower than 1/10" in 17 cal centerfire.

Most button barrels will run a bit slower than the stated twist rate. The 17's are more prone to this due to deflection in the tooling due to the size.

 

[DaveTooley]

Take a fired case and see if there is any resistance when you insert a bullet. A bullet should slide in without any resistance. If the case is too long for the chamber there will be a crimp at the end of the neck. After inserting a bullet it will swing side to side. Neither a too long case or tight neck should cause the accuracy issues you're having. Pressure, erratic yes but not like you're seeing.

Having been there before myself, Is the barrel tight?

 

[SBS]

It's been mentioned above, but by all means make sure the bolt handle does not touch the stock and stops only on the receiver. I would also follow up on your idea of replacing the mainspring. Poor ignition can still detonate the primers, but can cause high SD's and corresponding different vibrations in the barrel. Firing pin isn't a problem if it protrudes out of the bolt face .045-.055.

 

[dfrosch]

At least one is two bullets in one hole, the problem is the 3rd is not close to those two!

These four clearly hit the target sideways. Can you get any lighter or shorter bullets?

 

[TheCZKid]

These four clearly hit the target sideways. Can you get any lighter or shorter bullets?

View attachment 1679604

I see what you mean! Those are 25 Vmax, and I do have some 20 Vmax on hand, as you see some of my targets show loads with them. Plus, I've got some of the Hornady 15.5 NTX bullets I can test as well.

 

[dfrosch]

I see what you mean! Those are 25 Vmax, and I do have some 20 Vmax on hand, as you see some of my targets show loads with them. Plus, I've got some of the Hornady 15.5 NTX bullets I can test as well.

Really hope you haven't taken the dremel to it yet...

 

[TheCZKid]

I got a really good suggestion from someone, buy a box of factory 17 Fireball ammo, and shoot some. See how they shoot. I have tired to chamber some factory 17 FB ammo, and it chambers fine in this action. So I'm definitely going to go to LGS and get some ammo. My loads are all made from my own converted brass, and most have been once shot, might be an issue with my brass, compared to what it "should be" and hopefully shooting factory ammo will give me a reference point.