Things learned in the test tunnel

[whiddengunworks]

I thought a few of you may be interested in a few things we've learned so far in the test tunnel.

After cleaning or when changing ammo it doesn't take many shots for the guns to settle down. Like 5 or less for just about every barrel. Most often like 2-3.

Generally we're finding that longer barrels (like 26") are shooting better than shorter barrels (like 20"). I'm looking forward to more data on this one.

Tuner testing (I've only done 3, all my own) shows that there is a best setting for 50M and a best setting for 100M. These are two different settings on the tuner. Testing in the real world (prone for me) seems to verify this.

So far these are some of the more interesting findings. I look forward to reporting more as we learn!

 

[jaybray]

Regarding your findings on barrel fouling, I also found this out with my Anschutz 1710 HB. From a squeaky clean bore it took only 3 rounds for full accuracy and true POI to return. I have read some state 20 or more rounds to settle in but I just haven't seen that.

 

[Knotwild]

I thought a few of you may be interested in a few things we've learned so far in the test tunnel.

After cleaning or when changing ammo it doesn't take many shots for the guns to settle down. Like 5 or less for just about every barrel. Most often like 2-3.

Generally we're finding that longer barrels (like 26") are shooting better than shorter barrels (like 20"). I'm looking forward to more data on this one.

Tuner testing (I've only done 3, all my own) shows that there is a best setting for 50M and a best setting for 100M. These are two different settings on the tuner. Testing in the real world (prone for me) seems to verify this.

So far these are some of the more interesting findings. I look forward to reporting more as we learn!

I really appreciate you taking the time to share what you are learning. It's real life and right now.

 

[MrG52D]

Personally, I feel it takes 1 shot for every 2” of barrel to settle in correctly. I usually shoot 5 into the backer off target, then three at one upper sighter, the balance at individual sighters. JMO YMMV

I will agree about the longer barrels, but I have seen some short barrels shoot amazing amazingly well.

 

[MUP]

Thank you for sharing your findings!

 

[J.D.Erwin]

I thought a few of you may be interested in a few things we've learned so far in the test tunnel.

After cleaning or when changing ammo it doesn't take many shots for the guns to settle down. Like 5 or less for just about every barrel. Most often like 2-3.

Generally we're finding that longer barrels (like 26") are shooting better than shorter barrels (like 20"). I'm looking forward to more data on this one.

Tuner testing (I've only done 3, all my own) shows that there is a best setting for 50M and a best setting for 100M. These are two different settings on the tuner. Testing in the real world (prone for me) seems to verify this.

So far these are some of the more interesting findings. I look forward to reporting more as we learn!

Great info i'm going to make me a Whidden log book to keep this type of info in so i can refer to it as needed keep the info coming.
Thank You
Jerry

 

[dgeesaman]

I really appreciate you taking the time to share what you are learning. It's real life and right now.

Not to mention the value of shooting unnecessary precious ammo for foulers that don’t help.

 

[Straightshooter1]

I’m currently debating having my rifle tested with Eley Tenex. Should the test be done with or without the tuner? Should the tuner be reset to zero when testing with a tuner? If tested with a tuner do I leave it set where I have it now? It is tuned for Eley Match (black box) in the 1070’s fps. If I test it with the tuner at it’s current setting won’t that show only lots that shoot well at that setting? I have done some ammo tests with Eley Tenex 1079fps With the tuner in the same position as it was for Eley Match. See pics. We shoot our matches at 50, 75, and 100yds. The distance rotates monthly. I have a used, new to me, Hole Shot 2500X, Farley front joystick rest and Protector rear bag, Shilen 24 inch barrel,Harrel’s Tuner, Jimmy Tate wooden, pillared and bedded stock. Red targets are 100 yard, Green 50 yard. I’m new to tuners and would appreciate any info. Thanks, JoeView attachment 1566192

View attachment 1566197View attachment 1566198View attachment 1566200

If you're going to have the tuner on at all, you should always have the test done WITH the tuner. I'd have the test done with the tuner set where it's been doing best for you with the Eley Match. Yes, the test will show which shoots well with that tuner setting. But, that's OK as further tuning can still be done . . . right?

 

[dgeesaman]

If your tuner is tuned properly you don’t touch it. It should optimize results for all ammo (especially the best lots)

 

[Bobr]

On the tuner change from 50 too 100 was the adjustment consistent with lengthening or shortening the tuner from 50 too 100

 

[Ccrider]

Thanks for sharing. I hope no one does or post anything to keep you from sharing future information as you learn in the tunnel.

 

[js2013]

I thought a few of you may be interested in a few things we've learned so far in the test tunnel.

After cleaning or when changing ammo it doesn't take many shots for the guns to settle down. Like 5 or less for just about every barrel. Most often like 2-3.

Generally we're finding that longer barrels (like 26") are shooting better than shorter barrels (like 20"). I'm looking forward to more data on this one.

Tuner testing (I've only done 3, all my own) shows that there is a best setting for 50M and a best setting for 100M. These are two different settings on the tuner. Testing in the real world (prone for me) seems to verify this.

So far these are some of the more interesting findings. I look forward to reporting more as we learn!

Any data on accuracy vs number of rounds fired before cleaning would be interesting.

 

[jnr88]

Thanks for sharing,

 

[TRSR8]

Any data on accuracy vs number of rounds fired before cleaning would be interesting.

Every box +/-.

 

[js2013]

Every box +/-.

Every box +/- what? A box?
How much does accuracy decline? Is it a linear decline, exponential, or ….? Does the brand/lube used affect the decline? Lots of variables. If you know of any plots or info regarding accuracy decline per rounds fired send me the links. Thx

 

[PWNolan]

Every box +/- what? A box?
How much does accuracy decline? Is it a linear decline, exponential, or ….? Does the brand/lube used affect the decline? Lots of variables. If you know of any plots or info regarding accuracy decline per rounds fired send me the links. Thx

Cleaning at approximately every box is what most rimfire benchrest shooters do with their custom barrels. Paul Tolvstad (Muller/Lakeside barrels) told me that cleaning after each box is what he recommends. I'm pretty sure Wade and Pokey of Shilen do the same with their RFBR rifles

I doubt anyone's going to be able to give any hard data to answer your question. I assumed the clean after each box thing was more for prolonging barrel life than anything. I have access to a shooting tunnel by me. When I test there I'm usually pressed for time. So I don't always clean with the frequency that I prefer. The other day I had about 150 rounds through my Shilen Octagon and I shot a ARA UL target after and it scored 2400. I've done that previously too. I think both my rifles perform about the same with 150 rounds through the bore vs clean. I prefer to clean more frequently because it's easier and what an experienced barrel maker recommended

 

[Bennybooboo]

I thought a few of you may be interested in a few things we've learned so far in the test tunnel.

After cleaning or when changing ammo it doesn't take many shots for the guns to settle down. Like 5 or less for just about every barrel. Most often like 2-3.

Generally we're finding that longer barrels (like 26") are shooting better than shorter barrels (like 20"). I'm looking forward to more data on this one.

Tuner testing (I've only done 3, all my own) shows that there is a best setting for 50M and a best setting for 100M. These are two different settings on the tuner. Testing in the real world (prone for me) seems to verify this.

So far these are some of the more interesting findings. I look forward to reporting more as we learn!

Referencing the comment about longer barrels seem to shoot better, I've seen some YouTube videos commenting that something happens around the 20"-21" point where SD's seem to trend downwards (get better). Any chance you've kept an informal Excel spreadsheet? Also, if QuickLoad software is available, I wonder at what barrel length is optimal for the particular powder/charge weight efficiency, and if longer barrels are slowing projectiles to a more consistent muzzle velocity?

Regarding the two different tuner settings for the same ammo/lot# at 50m and 100m, any idea why this is?

I'm no syintest, but if the bullet is in the barrel for the same amount of time, and is exiting the muzzle at the same point in the barrels "harmonic vibration cycle" which is adjusted via the tuner setting (quotes because I don't know the proper term or what else to call that), we wound normally assume that an optimal tuner setting for 100m would translate to an optimal tuner setting at 50m, and that groups would be somewhat consistent (although proportionately larger/smaller for farther/closer distance).

One thing is for sure, I'm going to keep an eye on this thread! Thanks for sharing your findings, John!

 

[grauhanen]

Regarding the two different tuner settings for the same ammo/lot# at 50m and 100m, any idea why this is?

With this question much depends on what is believed.

Some explanations of how tuners do what the do assert that positive compensation explains how tuners work to put rounds of different MVs in a very similar POI. The positive compensation theory says that the tuner does its job by timing the barrel vibrations so that slower rounds exit the muzzle with a higher trajectory than faster rounds. This allows them to have a POI similar to faster rounds.

If positive compensation is correct it would mean that tuners settings work for one distance, not all distances.

For more on positive compensation, see these two well-known explanations.

Using barrel vibrations to tune a barrel

22 Long Rifle Barrel Tuner Analysis -- FEA Dynamic Analysis of Esten's 22LR Rifle with/without a Tuner.

Of course there's no agreement about how tuners work. Others subscribe to the idea that the tuner works to "stop" the muzzle from moving by tuner adjustments causing a "vibration node" to be at the muzzle. An explanation such as this seems to allow tuners to work at any distance reasonable for .22LR.

 

[TRSR8]

Every box +/- what? A box?
How much does accuracy decline? Is it a linear decline, exponential, or ….? Does the brand/lube used affect the decline? Lots of variables. If you know of any plots or info regarding accuracy decline per rounds fired send me the links. Thx

How well do you maintain you barrel? What kind of barrel? How good is your chamber? How fast does your chamber build a carbon ring? Do you shoot a gun where you can actually tell the difference?
Like I said…..every box.

 

[Ranger188]

@gunsandgunsmithing might be able to help out with this question.
You would think that a bullet that left the barrel at the same time and speed travels
farther would be on the same path, assuming no other factors to change it's flight
would use the same tune.
Your using the same ammo, same speed, how would the bullet know it's going to 100yds
and not 50yds. Makes me think that the 50yd tune wasn't quite as good as it should have been.
Maybe at a farther distance the slightly out of tune at 50yd is amplified showing up more
at 100yds.