The Ultimate Coyote Gun

[xdeano]

honestly if I were to cut another chamber for another rifle, i'd do the same exact thing over again. I really do like the 6SLR. I know you're only getting a little bit of a boost over a straight 243, and that really isn't the reason I was going for anyhow. As i know I could just get a straight 6mm Rem to fill that neche. It was a combination of small things. I like the shoulder angle and long neck for less scorching the throat giving me a substantually longer barrel life over the straight 243. I like the fact that with the longer neck, i can position the bullet where it's the most efficient to utilize case capacity. The long neck also tend to hold bullets more uniformly for neck tension. The long neck also tend to help in concentricity of the round. Case stretch is going to be less with the 30* shoulder. I'll be saving powder, to velocity over a 6mm Rem. So less powder burned would yield less throat eroded. I can push H1000 to get the job done, which is a slower/cooler burning powder which also will induce less throat erosion. The benifits out weigh the small exchange in buying a reamer and dies. OH YEAH! and i can get an extra 100-150fps out of the same size package. Women always like that. 8)

There are other wildcats that do a similar job, like the 6CM, which would be another one that i'd go after. But all this being said, for someone nothing looking at investing into a wildcat cartridge, the 243 is a damn spiffy little round, i've shot out a couple of barrels and they do work, one was a cheap ruger in 243 and the other was a sako in 243. Both shot good, but i was unable to shoot the heavies like i'd like to shoot. So the choice was easy.

xdeano

 

[fredhorace77]

xdeno...can you safely shoot a standard factory .243 round thru the 6slr chamber and get the brass that way or does it have to be reloads only for this gun...

 

[bcott]

In the last 50 yrs of coyote calling/killing I have tried several cartridges. The last 6 or so years my two 6mmBRs(Nesika T & Rem 700) have done everything for me. 1/10" and 1/14" twist. 70gr Sierra BKs and 55BKs. I occasionally get the 300yard shot, but very seldom anything farther out. My average rifle yardage is close to 117yds. I mainly call southern CA and western AZ. I also use a 10ga Browning Gold semi auto a lot, but that has a 60yard limit for me. My 2nd choice would be the 22/250 with 50 or 55gr bullets.

 

[fredhorace77]

bcott..have you tried the "Mad Dog" Dog Pounder choke tube yet..I use it out of a 12ga Rem. 11-87 3.5inch...i have had kills out to 70yrds with it...i love that thing. I bought a Steel Master reloader from Mec and i make my own shells for it..i personaly have had extremly good luck with #2 lead..though my other main load is #4Buck

 

[bcott]

No, I use the standard Browning extra full turkey. 2.5oz nickel plated BB, BPI original wad, 3 slits 2/3rd long. 38gr blue dot. It is truly terminal at any angle up to 60yds(for me). I laser all kills; rifle or shotgun, afterwards. My favorite Browning Gold is my older model w/steel receiver. I also have a newer one, the national turkey federation model. It has the aluminum receiver and is at least a pound lighter than the steel one. I load with an older Ponsness/Warren 10ga press. that model has had a couple of names Magnamatic(i think) and a few others. It is not a progressive, but it does the job. I also dribble in some grex. I am working from memory here. I loaded 500rds about 9years ago and am still working on that bunch. There for awhile I thought about using 3oz, but they are slow and the 2.5oz load is/was doing the job quite nicely.

I think the 3.5" 12 ga is an excellent coyote shotgun. But it was not out when I started doing shotgun. I have so much 10ga "stuff" that I will never change. I do not own a 12ga of any sort. I like the fact that my Browning Gold is a heavy auto. I owned a Remington SP10 for a few years. That thing kicked like an angry mule. For some reason the Browning is a light kicking gun. Plus I picked up two extra shots, if necessary.

 

[fredhorace77]

another one of my favorites for short shotgun work is my rem.870 youth model in 20 gauge...it sounds crazy but i can also shoot that thing one handed if need be..it is crazy light weight..i load it with 3" mag #4 turkey loads with xtra full turkey choke when i know shotgun shots are going to be somewhere around 40yrds or under

 

[xdeano]

Fred,
I haven't stuck a 243 round in the 6slr at all, but i'm guessing that it won't go. Making the brass is nothing though. All you do is run it through the FL die and it's done. It's not an extra step, at leaste it never is for me with virgin brass because i want to get the right neck tension and get that factory neck back into round, as they typically get banged up.

But i know where you going with this, you can't just go to the store and pick up 243 and fireform it into 6slr if you run out in the field. It's a handloader.

bcott,
my second choice would probably be the 22-250 for fur, which works well.

xdeano

 

[Three44s]

I must say this has been by far and away the MOST intelligent conversation about coyote cartridge selection I have seen since I began going on line!!!

Here's my story: I began with a .243 win then got a second one! In all the years, I have never met a coyote that could argue with it!

Two down-sides: Tore up pelts and more recoil

I shoot coyotes with just about anything under the sun that I have at my disposal but this is the list I have tried so far as a serious hunting caliber:

.204 Ruger
.222 & .223
.22-250
.243 win
6mm Rem (got stolen)
.25-06

They all work well. They also all have long commings and short commings.

For cheap shooting it's hard to beat the .223 as brass is awash in this country but it's not the flatest shooter of the bunch. Barrel life is excellent and for that and the huge brass supply it will reign supreme in the PD towns for years to come!

When I came of age the bullets were not as reliable in expansion and I believe the the raw horsepower of the .243 Win made it a very good choice for coyotes. The fellow I hunted with was an unrepentant night hunter for coyotes. He hated run offs .......... hence his rifle was a .243 and I followed suit.

About '92, I acquired my first .22-250 and me being a real cheap skate ...... I loaded cheap bullets, the Rem 55 gr. HP and it was a disaster! You could iron out a coyote @ 100 yds and count to three and it would jump to it's feet and a beat a hastey retreat!! I blamed the cartridge but it was my fault. I then began using the Sierra Game King in 55 gr. spitzer and things really smoothed out!! I then used the the Nosler 55gr. Ballistic Tip and I never looked back!!! I got a lot of entrance holes with NO exits!!

It took me a good many years to find another cartridge that would do that .......... but I finally did: the .204 Ruger!!

And it does so with PANASH!

On the big end, I have a number of .25-06's and I really cherrish them ... but there is no way around the fact that their recoil "starts" where the .243 leaves OFF!!

My sporter weight .22-250 kicked less than my bull barreled .243!

The .204 Ruger recoils so little (a bull barreled Savage) and the slugs travel so fast that you don't lose the sight picture at the shot!! ....... and that's worth a LOT!!

It is pretty much documented that the small slugs are going to be bounced around more than the bigger, longer items so I have NO doubt that the .204's have a wind problem. But, I can't get overly worked up at that fact however!! For as I live smack dab in the middle of Eastern Washington .......... and I have never seen an opportunity at a coyote in the wind! ........... mainly because our coyotes just don't play well in the wind (as in you DON'T see them out!!

Now the original question: What is the "Ultimate" coyote cartridge? could be changed to: Is there an ultimate coyote cartridge? ......... and I'd have to say: Not really!!

But ............ there's a lot of really GOOD ONES!!

Pick one or three and have a ball!!!


Three 44s

 

[Tango51]

If you want to shoot long, usually a heavier bullet is going to be better and easier to dope in the wind. I use the .243 when Im in the States. The 100 gr shoots long, and I don't have to save the pelts. Good thing too because as good a "seamtress" as I am, sometimes it's kinda impossible to sew the pelt.

At my place in Canada, we're required to keep the pelt so I've gone to the .223 and 69 gr or 75 gr. Good to 600 easy and much easier to sew the pelts and not as loud and "scary" to the farmers and ranchers and their livestock.

Regards

 

[xswanted]

I would personally, and I have, lean towards the 22-250 AI with a fairly fast twist.

I built one this year with an 8 twist to use as a late season gun when the dogs are hanging up at longer yardages while calling, or to use while trying to get bedded ones.

If you want a good carry gun, build it on a 10 or 12 twist, use the Bergers in a 64 or 55 version and start shooting.

My Dad uses a 22-6mm wild cat, not even sure what kind of version it is, but he pushes the 55's at 3950 and the 64s at 3750.

The 22-250AI will be close to these numbers.

 

[1holeaddict]

I would personally, and I have, lean towards the 22-250 AI with a fairly fast twist.

I built one this year with an 8 twist to use as a late season gun when the dogs are hanging up at longer yardages while calling, or to use while trying to get bedded ones.

If you want a good carry gun, build it on a 10 or 12 twist, use the Bergers in a 64 or 55 version and start shooting.

My Dad uses a 22-6mm wild cat, not even sure what kind of version it is, but he pushes the 55's at 3950 and the 64s at 3750.

The 22-250AI will be close to these numbers.

Im not knocking any of the wildcat cartridges or any of the wildcat lovers. Everybody to his own. Im just not seeing any advantage that these cartridges have over a 243win pushing a 105 at 3000-3100fps. The 243win is going to hold up at greater distances than a lightweight 22caliber bullet.

 

[sscoyote]

Great stuff XDeano. Been wanting 1 of those 6mm SLR's for quite some time, but just had a 270-Saum XP-100 handgun built by Chuck McIntosh up in Gillette, so that project's definitely on hold. Here's my go-to coyote rig this year--Sav. Super Striker 22-250/15" McGowen 8-T/NF 3.5-15x NP-R1/Accu-Shot monopod [now] in conjunction with tall Harris bipod [fantastic combo that allows for the most versatility possible for the nuances of coyote shots with a SP system]--1st shots at 325, 400 and 525--

80 A-max at 2800. Ideal gun--probably [definitely] not, fact is there probably really isn't one, but it sure is fun to shoot, especially since i won this shoot with it couple months ago--

http://home.comcast.net/~MOA_Shooters/MOASHOOTERrovingfieldcourseb.htm

What the heck, even if u do "blow 'em up" with a big bullet they can be put back together again--

and man i can't let 'em lay anymore since they eventually turn out like this--

 

[xdeano]

1holeaddict,
Totally agree with your thought, I have a recipe for a 243 and a 105 to get it up to 3100-3150fps, i can't divulge that on line though. HEHE There would be some very upset match shooters if I did.
i will have to say that my gunsmiths 22-243 with an 80g berger @ 3500fps has less drop then my 6SLR at 3150fps at extended distances.

SScoyote,
Thanks, it's been a really fun project. Nice sew job by the way. Mine don't look nearly that neat. I do a running lock stitch so if it gets cut at the tannery it won't undo the entire sew job. But that is definitely a very nice stitch.

xdeano

 

[1holeaddict]

1holeaddict,
Totally agree with your thought, I have a recipe for a 243 and a 105 to get it up to 3100-3150fps, i can't divulge that on line though. HEHE There would be some very upset match shooters if I did.
i will have to say that my gunsmiths 22-243 with an 80g berger @ 3500fps has less drop then my 6SLR at 3150fps at extended distances.

SScoyote,
Thanks, it's been a really fun project. Nice sew job by the way. Mine don't look nearly that neat. I do a running lock stitch so if it gets cut at the tannery it won't undo the entire sew job. But that is definitely a very nice stitch.

xdeano

Thats like driving by a candy store with a back seat full of kids!!! Let me in on the secret. Ha Ha

 

[sscoyote]

Thks. Deano. Gonna have to try that lock stitch as mine also come unstitched at the tannery too often.

Be interesting to see what a faster-twisted 22SLR would do too. I was actually thinking about doing the SSS above in one of those--but it might just be too much work for my liking.

 

[xdeano]

SScoyote,

Take a look at the 22-243 middlestead, it's basically the 22SLR. 243 brass, 30 degree shoulder and a longer neck.

The lock stitch is the way to go.

1holeaddict,
Yeah, sorry about the candy. LOL!!

Deano

 

[sscoyote]

Alright Capitan--how do u do that lock stitch? Got a buddy of mine who shot a nice red fox last year with a 270/140 Nosler and blew the daylights out of him so this may prove useful as he wants to get it tanned and it's skinned in the freezer now.

Mike Johnson out of MT uses a Middlested, but i don't think he's shooting anything over 60 grains. May have to look at it some.

I tell ya' the nice thing about the straight-up 22-250 though is the taper sure makes it nice for feeding--sometimes important on a coyote hunt. With the little SSS above i can hold 2 in the magazine, and it feeds great even with that looong 80 A-max sticking out of that case. I know there's not a lot of SP shooters here, but If i were doing another single shot XP-100 i'd go straight to the 223 WSSM and not look back as it's short-action friendly and performs well with some case prep from all i've read on it.

This next year though the SSS rig above is getting a face lift to try and make it a bit lighter by taking the thumbhole part off the stock. It's pretty as is but lacks functionality IMO.

IMO, the best coyote rig for killing a lot of dogs at most reasonable ranges though would have to be a 243 WSSM set up right in an AR-15. I actually have one built by D-Tech that i haven't worked with enough yet. The plan is to do that before season gets here for any damage control work that may come my way this year.

I have a buddy who uses a 243 /87 V-Max combination in an AR-10 and he's killed more 1st-shot [and multiple-shot] dogs i've ever seen anyone kill all the way out to almost 800 yds. with that combination. The only problem with it is it's just too big.

 

[xswanted]

I would personally, and I have, lean towards the 22-250 AI with a fairly fast twist.

I built one this year with an 8 twist to use as a late season gun when the dogs are hanging up at longer yardages while calling, or to use while trying to get bedded ones.

If you want a good carry gun, build it on a 10 or 12 twist, use the Bergers in a 64 or 55 version and start shooting.

My Dad uses a 22-6mm wild cat, not even sure what kind of version it is, but he pushes the 55's at 3950 and the 64s at 3750.

The 22-250AI will be close to these numbers.

Im not knocking any of the wildcat cartridges or any of the wildcat lovers. Everybody to his own. Im just not seeing any advantage that these cartridges have over a 243win pushing a 105 at 3000-3100fps. The 243win is going to hold up at greater distances than a lightweight 22caliber bullet.

Yeup...243 is a great varmint gun. I like a .22 for fur friendlyness.....not neccassairly the one I mentioned, but some of the others I own. The other reason being the .22's pushing the 80 or 75 grain bullets is it shoots slightly flatter out to 400-450 range.

I really want to build up a 20BR.....i think that would be wicked in both categories!

 

[xdeano]

A running lock stitch is pretty basic. I might be able to explain it in words.
Clean the exit and cut any blood shot flesh.
Take your thread, doubled and put a knot at the tail. Push the needle through both sides of the exit and pass it back through the tail and sinch it down. Then the next time you push the needle through go from the same side you went the last time and keep going from one side. Once you've pushed it through you'll end up with the long tail end before you sinch it tight take the string and double twist the thread and run the needle back through the loop that you just made. When you go to sinch the knot remember to follow the knot down to the flesh or you'll end up with a knot in a place you don't want it. Then after you've made your first knot the next loop doesn't have to be locked, but you can if you want. I do every other one.

Now that's about as clear as mudd.

The 87grain Vmax is like lightning on coyotes. They just drop.

xdeano

 

[areaone]

6mm Rem or 6mmAI, longer neck, easier loading, more powder capacity-more speed and very accurate. Loong range varmint getter. 10 or 12 twist based on bullet. The Speer 85 spit BT a real "Smack Down".
Watched an antelope at 660yds hit with a 85 gr Sierra BT collapse on the spot, not even a quiver.