Very nice groups, but no aggregate is shown. Rifle precision is measured by aggs, not individual groups.
Do you have a 5x5 target, or a 12x3 like the charge/seating depth test that I posted?
The Savage Barrel System & Costs
- Thread starter Phil3
- Start date
Very nice groups, but no aggregate is shown. Rifle precision is measured by aggs, not individual groups.
Do you have a 5x5 target, or a 12x3 like the charge/seating depth test that I posted?
I was going to speak to this question in a separate post, but it would be all about "ME", and not what I want. So, here is the answer, but may not endear me to some if not many forum members.
In short, the answer is because I don't want a "BR" (BenchRest) gun. After observing BR matches, and participating in a BR match with a borrowed rifle, I realized BR is not my "thing". Nor is any kind of competition. Hence, it makes no sense to buy a used BR rifle, and naturally even less sense to try and build such an animal off a factory action. If I was into BR and competition, I would most likely buy a used BR gun as is often recommended. The heavy depreciation, slick fast quality action, are the primary reasons why.
I generally prefer mag fed rifles, in a MacMillan A5 style stock or chassis, shot off a bipod or bag for the front and a light squishy rear bag for the rear, with a grip I can get my hand around and pull the trigger. Such a rifle and shooting arrangement (bipod and bag) will never achieve the accuracy of any decent custom benchrest rifle set up for a BR match. And that's fine, because achieving the absolute ultimate in accuracy is NOT my objective. Building the most accurate rifle I can off a particular platform (Howa, Savage, semi-auto, even a custom action) IS, as well as learning how to reload and shoot that particular rifle well, with the aforementioned setup.
It may seem odd to some to build an AR-15 for accuracy, like I have done. I knew from the beginning that a semi-auto is not the ideal accuracy platform, and would never be a ragged hole rifle, but I wanted to see what kind of accuracy I could get out of a semi-auto. It was fun and satisfying to find out. I want to do the same with the Savage, and the Howa action I have sitting at home. I like some variety, hence the Savage action single shot with right bolt, left port I am building in 6mmBR.
I do like to see small groups like everyone. It is very nice to get a relatively rare 0.3" 5 shot group (100 yards) out of my AR, even if a 6PPC guy would laugh at this. But, for me, out of an AR, I am pretty happy, even if my daughter is the one who seems to do it more easily than I.
I visit this forum, even though it leans to BR, because I find the information very interesting and invaluable, even for non-BR people. The forum content, the members, the 6mmBR articles, have unquestionably helped me a great deal, and no doubt helped my AR-15 achieve accuracy that even surprised me. I am anxious to see what the Savage will do.
Thanks.
Phil
rjtfroggy
Gold $$ Contributor
Phil I'm on your side, I have 15 Savages of which 5 are factory builds and the rest I put together the way I wanted them. Although I do shoot BR with 2 of them, one a 6mm Norma X Caliber barrel on a PTA. Shoots better than I can and it does 1/4" all most every time I shoot groups. One is a mod. 12 single shot that is at Sharp Shooters as I type for a t&t and competition trigger and that will get either a Douglas 10 twist or a Criterion 12 twist 308 Win. and will be dedicated to 200 or 300 BR.
I found that I can have 2 Savages for the price of one custom and the only person I compete against is myself so it doesn't matter to me and I do hold my own at club matches, I even win my share of them.
So in my opinion buy what YOU want and have fun doing what you are doing.
I found that I can have 2 Savages for the price of one custom and the only person I compete against is myself so it doesn't matter to me and I do hold my own at club matches, I even win my share of them.
So in my opinion buy what YOU want and have fun doing what you are doing.
Being retired there is no way I'm going to afford a custom action and send it to a smith for a barrel install. Transportation both ways is expensive. I started with a new PTA action and a Criterion barrel from NSS. At 100 yards from a concrete bench my groups look just like swadivers. That's plenty good for me and my shooting, plus at my age my hands are shaky. I'm really happy with the smoothness of the PTA and the trigger which is set at 6oz. The one I got has a ground lug and nut which is the way Savage sent it out. I know some guys say they have to take their triggers to 10 or more ozs to hold. If I find a good buy on another Savage action I'll buy it.
Phil, I've been following this thread...I resisted jumping in until now...I have a few Savage actions & I like being able to switch barrels myself.It is a really neat feature..Example I did a stock just for my wife..I put some work into getting that sporter set up for her..The length of fit, nice butt pad & the tuned trigger..She has a nice scope she likes for hunting...I took the 3 best sporter weight Barrels & calibers I have collected & that she needs...I keep those for her to use on her stock..A 22-250 Rem , a 243Win. & a 308 Win...Covers all the bases..She shoots it well, I'm happy with that project...I have 3 other actions & stocks for myself to use..One was a 243Win I have had maybe 3 or 4 barrels for..I recently found a new range that has Steel targets at 850 to 1000 yards...The monthly competition there is fierce..High 30's out of 40 possible is needed to win...More than a few shoot Savage actions w pre-fit or custom barrels..Add in Fancy BR stock & the best Sights..These guys/girls make it look easy enough..I [actually my wife] found only one flaw in using the Savage action for long range competition ...The Action itself is just not smooth enough or fast enough to really ride the bags to a win..I can get off 2 or 3 really accurate shots/hits..Then things get off to flying wide..Sometimes I miss reading the wind & sometimes it is the force I need to operate the bolt & reload the rifle..It changes the point of impact..I'm not liking that..I've taken to full length re-sizing my cartridges just to speed things up on the range to get my shots off as smoothly & fast enough while conditions stay the same..I'm no expert but I can see I have to get this rig to run smoother to win..I hope that helps your understanding..Mike in Ct
Mike
I have several savages myself with barrel and stock combination .
3 are RBLP target actions . They can a do shoot good enough to win the competition or fun matches at our club . Shoot to me isn't how fast you can shoot in one condition makes you a winner. Isn't the game I care to play. Savage may not be the action of choice for some form of shooting but the can be in others . Larry
Exactly the same for me. However, I can see how "Mike in CT" and others who compete, need the speed - Phil
6MMsteve
Gold $$ Contributor
I have a 65284 Shilen that had a very short freebore sent it out and had it cut for 140s, A 140 touching or slightly jammed only had about .125 of bearing surface showing, ICEBERG effect affect iffect I think it was throated for 100gr pillsThe last 3 Shilen prefits I got (243w, 308w & 300winmag) had short freebore.
But certain VLD & Hybrid bullets work good with this shorter freebore because of their short bearing surface.
For example on my 243w Shilen barrel, a list of bullets and coal when kissing lands (from raw memory, too lazy to go downstairs to verify lol)
105 Horn. bthp - 2.720"
105 Amax - 2.760"
105 Berg. VLD - 2.830"
107 SMK - 2.850"
The Steel Varmint match is ten of each target, crow, groundhog, bobcat & a coyote.. 5 shots per relay..2 mins for sight-ers.. Then 3 mins for five record shots, wait for reset of targets & shoot again no sighters..You can wait it out pickers, or shoot fast as you can, runners..I have not yet figured it out...I can drill the 5 inch sighter disc at each distance..Then only get [hits on ] one or two targets for record, then a miss [3/only once 4 in a row is my best so far]....I've upgraded my front rest & rear bag..I hope this helps..I keep hearing my wife's voice telling me I'm beating up the rest/bags forcing that action closed..I know messing with those parts changes the point of impact..mike
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