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The Next Evolutionary Stage

What I find interesting about the "Savage Debate" is that Remington is making a "clone" (Model 783) to compete with Savage. Based on this I would guess Savage is in the "catbird seat" at the moment. Rifles are evolving and with the "greatest rifle salesman of all time" in the White House, there is a business opportunity for someone whom can take advantage of it.

Much of the comments about Savage indicate the "module" of being able to change barrels oneself is a great attraction (along with low price and accuracy). This is the same trend evident in the popularity of the Ruger 22 auto, and the AR15 platform.

An AR shooter by simply changing to one of Krieger's "drop ins" can upgrade his AR into the realm of benchrest accuracy. At a very reasonable price for what you get.

I think the small businesses of the stock/action/barrel makers presently have a great opportunity to develop a new lightweight "modular platform" that will be the next great stage in rifle evolution.

The AR is too heavy, due to its bolt carrier, high capacity magazine and stout requirements of its military heritage. What is needed is a small aluminum short-throw bolt-action repeater with an AR type barrel and no gas system that can be modified like an AR to upgrade barrel (without having to headspace), or ugrade trigger, or sights without buying a new rifle.

The stubby 6mmBR/Dasher/30BR class of cartridges with their .308 bolt face, very short bolt throw, extremely inherent accuracy, and light weight are waiting to be exploited.

With close design, you could cut the weight of the AR in half, have mild recoil, extreme accuracy, and easy modularity.

Who will exploit this next stage in rifle evolution? Whomever it is will leave the "Savage debate" to the realm of historical curiosity.

I doubt we will get as many comments as the "Savage debate" generates, but we will be considering something and "brainstorming" the leading edge, rather than what is already a settled market trend.

Maybe.
 
58weasel said:
An AR shooter by simply changing to one of Krieger's "drop ins" can upgrade his AR into the realm of benchrest accuracy.

"benchrest" meaning " bring what ya got" club shoots type of competition....yes
Registered Benchrest Competition.......No
 
58weasel said:
What is needed is a small aluminum short-throw bolt-action repeater with an AR type barrel and no gas system that can be modified like an AR to upgrade barrel (without having to headspace), or ugrade trigger, or sights without buying a new rifle.

The stubby 6mmBR/Dasher/30BR class of cartridges with their .308 bolt face, very short bolt throw, extremely inherent accuracy, and light weight are waiting to be exploited.


Maybe.

Even an AR type receiver , with a conventional bolt action , that interchanges AR barrels , Mags ,Fore ends ...... so the eventual lines of accessories benefit both platforms .
 
Trust me the died in the wool remmy guys think it is junk. They would mock it (783) just as much.
 
You want to buy evolution, get a Beggs like the one shown in today's bulletin. That system is able to compete with the best out there today. Simplicity without 19th century jamb-nut technology. ::)
In the rush to please DIY'ers we seem to be going az-backwards.
 
In a box-stock versus box-stock competition, I would take a Savage over a Remington any day. The only thing the Remington has ever had going for it is the "blueprinted" or "custom shop" versions which are pretty much entry-level custom actions.

It's like the constant barrage of "Savage's are junk" posts which compare a Savage factory action and trigger to a full custom with a Jewel trigger. You think? Any factory rig is "junk" in that comparison. In a dozen or so years of egg shoots and informal matches at our range I don't remember a Remington ever winning. Plenty of Savages have, along with Sako's and Coopers.

I, of course, have no idea what Savage's reason was for going to the barrel nut method of securing the barrel in its actions. I assume it was a decision driven by the accounting department and saved them money in some way. That system was out for years before the Model 12/112 came along and the BVSS especially berthed the whole "home gunsmith" market for pre-chambered barrels. The system works. It doesn't replace gunsmiths but it does offer valid options.

Don't want to turn this thread into a bashing match. I think the factories are doing a good job of paying the bills and the "entry level" hunting guns are doing that. In my area, shops can't keep the Savage Axis or Ruger American in stock. I don't see the Remington 783 being as popular here, but it is Remington's entry into that category. These guns aren't intended to win the F-Class nationals.

The AR platform is extremely popular and lots of hunters and shooters got their first training on it. I don't see that platform as the basis for next "in" thing. As I look through the magazines and ads, it's difficult to see a hole in the current availability of models. The manufacturers have just about everything covered as far as I can see. From the entry-level rifles all the way to the Coopers and Kimbers, etc. the line-up is pretty full. And the AR platform has so many iterations that I can't even keep up with them.

In the custom and semi-custom market, we've never had it so good. Not much room for improvement with the exception of a few more custom shops to take some of the "wait" out of getting a new gun.
 
Something like the Tubb 2000, but about a tenth its cost. The T2K is an "across the course" gun, not a BR gun; but it costs as much as a full blown bench rest piece.
An easy/accurate switch barrel would get a lot more barrels bought by those interested in trying them.
Wouldn't compete with a "smithed" bench rest gun in formal competition, but would be in that "realm"; something way above the Savage in performance but competitive/comparable in price. And much much handier and lighter.
When one wanted to try something different, buy a new barrel (with no headspacing) rather than a whole new rifle.
This is where the Savage platform is leaving all the others behind.
 

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