The new hog exploder.....

[ab_bentley]

That's way short.... I am getting 1.550-1.565 with the blue box in my 22!!! I can't come close to 34.5 grains of Varget in my 22 Dasher with 75 grain A-Max's!!!

Really, I'm surprised that 34.5gr is out of the park. The powder is touching the bullet base but not compressed. Were you getting similar speeds with the H4350?
Adam

 

[Phil]

That sounds much better......

 

[22DASHER]

Really, I'm surprised that 34.5gr is out of the park. The powder is touching the bullet base but not compressed. Were you getting similar speeds with the H4350?
Adam

Those are the velocities I was getting with H4350 and another grain of powder.

 

[ab_bentley]

Did some load data with IMR 4166 and IMR4451 with 75s. 4166 preformed exactly like varget, ending right where Vargets max was, with identical speeds. 4451 went to 37gr (very compressed) and topped out at 3477fps. Both are OK powders but if you have the real deal (4350H/ Varget) use it.

Adam

 

[fredo]

Got some 75gr Amax stuffed into the blue box gold and heaped as much varget behind it I could. Ended up @ 34.5gr with bullet touching lands and a GMM primer. Average speed was 3538 for the average. Real low ES/ SD good grouping. I'm running within 125fps of max loads in my 22x47L. View attachment 987180 View attachment 987181 View attachment 987182

WOW.
Some impressive #s there!
From a 23" barrel and that amount of powder in a small case? A true testament to the pressure handling ability of that brass. Almost makes me cringe to think about it...

My 'smith buddy built a 22x47L AI using my .22-243AI reamer run short to employ x47L brass, and he was getting similarly crazy fast velocities from it. After contemplating & calculating how much pressure the load was generating, he thought the better of it and backed it waaay off.
Amazing that the small primer pocket brass can take 70+kpsi without much in the way of 'pressure signs', but the absence of those 'signs' doesn't dismiss/negate an overpressure situation is occurring with every firing. The only way for that sized case to net that speed from that amount of powder is via a serious amount of case pressure.

FWIW...

Be careful, have fun and enjoy it while it lasts!

 

[ab_bentley]

WOW.
Some impressive #s there!
From a 23" barrel and that amount of powder in a small case? A true testament to the pressure handling ability of that brass. Almost makes me cringe to think about it...

My 'smith buddy built a 22x47L AI using my .22-243AI reamer run short to employ x47L brass, and he was getting similarly crazy fast velocities from it. After contemplating & calculating how much pressure the load was generating, he thought the better of it and backed it waaay off.
Amazing that the small primer pocket brass can take 70+kpsi without much in the way of 'pressure signs', but the absence of those 'signs' doesn't dismiss/negate an overpressure situation is occurring with every firing. The only way for that sized case to net that speed from that amount of powder is via a serious amount of case pressure.

FWIW...

Be careful, have fun and enjoy it while it lasts!

23" was the old barrel, this guy is 27". He's also a three groove.

Adam

 

[fredo]

Sorry, I missed that! I like that extra 'rubber' to get the power down to the road...

Still ponderous to think of the case pressure required for ~35gr of powder to push a 75Amax to easily clear 3500fps, when a much larger .22-243AI does it with a tame ~47-49gr charge of slow burn powder.

Two different routes to the same end. Smaller case & faster burn powder needs to net BIG pressure to net the same velocity. Piper's gotta get paid, no matter what...given Newtons Laws & all.

Like I said, impressive to see the pressure handling ability of that case, cuz that combo is gettin' after it!

 

[ab_bentley]

Sorry, I missed that! I like that extra 'rubber' to get the power down to the road...

Still ponderous to think of the case pressure required for ~35gr of powder to push a 75Amax to easily clear 3500fps, when a much larger .22-243AI does it with a tame ~47-49gr charge of slow burn powder.

Two different routes to the same end. Smaller case & faster burn powder needs to net BIG pressure to net the same velocity. Piper's gotta get paid, no matter what...given Newtons Laws & all.

Like I said, impressive to see the pressure handling ability of that case, cuz that combo is gettin' after it!

You're exactly right, never a free lunch. In running this rifle 25 cases at a time, if these 25 crap the bed quickly I'll look to another powder. Probably H4350....

 

[fredo]

That's what my 'smith ran in that .22x47 AI.
He backed off & settled in the high 3300s for a consistent node with the 75s.
More viable performance window for that sized case. Seems the .22Dasher settles in as a close match to the .22-250AI in capacity. With the added bonus of runnin' small primer pocket brass that will take a beating if you wanna put yer foot down...
Cool little cartridge!

 

[HillbillyLongRifle]

I have a 22 Dasher I'm running 55 Nosler Ballistic tips at 4045 FPS out of a 27.5 inch Brux 12 twist barrel with 35 gr of IMR8208. It's a Laser very flat shooting. Anything on the BR case is Awesome. The 22 Dasher is a very good cartridge.

 

[tclaunch]

Very nice read, I enjoyed this, and has my head spinning. I have a 10 twist Krieger, thanks Gabe! A 22BRDX reamer with .025" freebore, 98 pieces of the new Norma Dasher brass, that can be necked down and a Dasher headspace gauge. I might make chips fly!!!

 

[HillbillyLongRifle]

3 Groundhogs have met the 22 Dasher so far. What a Mess it makes of them!

 

[ratbuster]

Using Hornady's Ballistic Calculator and comparing a 22 Dasher launching the Hornady 53 grain bullet at 4000 fps (impressive .290 BC) to a 20 Practical and 40 grain Horandy at 3800 FPS there is not a major advantage burning the extra powder if you just consider drop and drift. Where the Dasher has a significant advantage is energy. Using that large of cartridge on squirrels is overkill for high volume situations in my opinion but for larger targets (prairie dogs and up) or lower volume shooting it would be worth it for the added killing power. See comparisons below. Drift is based on 10 mph, 90 degree crosswind; sea level, 59 degrees.

400yd Drop/Drift/Energy 500 yd Drop/Drift/Energy
22 Dasher, 53 gn Hornady @ 4000 fps -14.6"/13.4"/778 ftlb -28.6"/22"/611 ftlb
20 Practical, 40 gn Hornady @ 3800 fps -17.2"/15.2"/497 ftlb -33.7"/25.2"/381 ftlb

The Dasher has almost as much energy at 400 yards as the Practical does at 200 yards. I have to say I have hit squirrels at 400+ yards with the Practical and they still take it hard, sometimes launching in the air. Not really any crawl offs with 500 ft lbs of energy!

I do not have any first hand experience with something like the 22 Dasher but have been considering a hot rod varmint gun. Truth is I will likely only hunt PD's once a year as there are none within 12 hour drive and I get lots of premium, big volume shooting at ground squirrels in Nor Cal but at times you just want more!

For those of you that shoot the 22 Dasher or similar with 50-55 gn bullet how is the recoil for seeing your hits? That is big deal to me. If I build one I would definitely have a muzzle brake on it.

FYI....for the ELD bullets Hornady has a new, more sophiticated ballistics calculator called 4DOF: http://www.hornady.com/ballistics-resource/4dof

 

[ab_bentley]

Using Hornady's Ballistic Calculator and comparing a 22 Dasher launching the Hornady 53 grain bullet at 4000 fps (impressive .290 BC) to a 20 Practical and 40 grain Horandy at 3800 FPS there is not a major advantage burning the extra powder if you just consider drop and drift. Where the Dasher has a significant advantage is energy. Using that large of cartridge on squirrels is overkill for high volume situations in my opinion but for larger targets (prairie dogs and up) or lower volume shooting it would be worth it for the added killing power. See comparisons below. Drift is based on 10 mph, 90 degree crosswind; sea level, 59 degrees.

400yd Drop/Drift/Energy 500 yd Drop/Drift/Energy
22 Dasher, 53 gn Hornady @ 4000 fps -14.6"/13.4"/778 ftlb -28.6"/22"/611 ftlb
20 Practical, 40 gn Hornady @ 3800 fps -17.2"/15.2"/497 ftlb -33.7"/25.2"/381 ftlb

The Dasher has almost as much energy at 400 yards as the Practical does at 200 yards. I have to say I have hit squirrels at 400+ yards with the Practical and they still take it hard, sometimes launching in the air. Not really any crawl offs with 500 ft lbs of energy!

I do not have any first hand experience with something like the 22 Dasher but have been considering a hot rod varmint gun. Truth is I will likely only hunt PD's once a year as there are none within 12 hour drive and I get lots of premium, big volume shooting at ground squirrels in Nor Cal but at times you just want more!

For those of you that shoot the 22 Dasher or similar with 50-55 gn bullet how is the recoil for seeing your hits? That is big deal to me. If I build one I would definitely have a muzzle brake on it.

FYI....for the ELD bullets Hornady has a new, more sophiticated ballistics calculator called 4DOF: http://www.hornady.com/ballistics-resource/4dof

On the right coast we're not shooting squirrels, groundhogs are the game and at far distances. I would concur, squirrels or PDs wouldn't know the difference. I've shot a lot of hogs with the 20p and it's no where in the same league as the 22 dasher, it's not even the same sport.

The dasher and it's extra 13grs of bullet makes a huge difference in the real world. What you get in a ballistic app vs reality, when dealing with the small calibers, can be way off. Like a 20p @ 750yds is almost 5 minutes off of the app. The 22 dasher keeps closer to the app and much easier to navigate to a first shot hit.

Also the show put on by a 53gr vmax @ 4000fps isn't something you get with that 40gr 204.

Adam

 

[ratbuster]

On the right coast we're not shooting squirrels, groundhogs are the game and at far distances. I would concur, squirrels or PDs wouldn't know the difference. I've shot a lot of hogs with the 20p and it's no where in the same league as the 22 dasher, it's not even the same sport.

The dasher and it's extra 13grs of bullet makes a huge difference in the real world. What you get in a ballistic app vs reality, when dealing with the small calibers, can be way off. Like a 20p @ 750yds is almost 5 minutes off of the app. The 22 dasher keeps closer to the app and much easier to navigate to a first shot hit.

Also the show put on by a 53gr vmax @ 4000fps isn't something you get with that 40gr 204.

Adam

That makes sense Adam. I will very likely build one as I have an extra action, stock and scope sitting in the safe. If the rifle has a muzzle brake and weighs 15 lbs would you say it would be good for seeing hits? I could always add several more pounds by putting lead into the stock.

BTW, I have not shot paper over 200 yards but the Hornady ballistics charts are on for drop on both my 20P and 20VT at 400 to 450 yards.

 

[ab_bentley]

That makes sense Adam. I will very likely build one as I have an extra action, stock and scope sitting in the safe. If the rifle has a muzzle brake and weighs 15 lbs would you say it would be good for seeing hits? I could always add several more pounds by putting lead into the stock.

BTW, I have not shot paper over 200 yards but the Hornady ballistics charts are on for drop on both my 20P and 20VT at 400 to 450 yards.

Mine weighs 21lbs with brake and on 25x @ 100yds I can see hits, HillbillySniperswva has a lightweight 22 Dasher, 13lbs? I'd pm him and see what he thinks.

Adam

 

[Gabe22BR]

Very nice read, I enjoyed this, and has my head spinning. I have a 10 twist Krieger, thanks Gabe! A 22BRDX reamer with .025" freebore, 98 pieces of the new Norma Dasher brass, that can be necked down and a Dasher headspace gauge. I might make chips fly!!!

Sounds good!!!


WELCOME.

 

[ab_bentley]

Just zapped a crow @ 250yds, didn't even take it off my 100yd zero. Blew that poor guy clean in two pieces.

Adam

 

[ratbuster]

Adam,

I noticed for your 22 Dasher you chose CM rather than SS. Did you do that because CM is better than SS for rechambering due to throat wear?

I love reading your posts on the various forums; you are obviously highly experienced and have a massive knowledge of small caliber varminting.

I am a huge proponent of 20 cal bullets and have been doing research in recent months to up the ante to a 20 hot rod but your post about the 22 Dasher has me leaning that way. If you had to do it over again would you still choose the Dasher or would you consider another cartridge for the 53 gn Vmax such as the 22x47L or 22/250AI?


Thanks for your reply.

Phil Schmidt

On the right coast we're not shooting squirrels, groundhogs are the game and at far distances. I would concur, squirrels or PDs wouldn't know the difference. I've shot a lot of hogs with the 20p and it's no where in the same league as the 22 dasher, it's not even the same sport.

The dasher and it's extra 13grs of bullet makes a huge difference in the real world. What you get in a ballistic app vs reality, when dealing with the small calibers, can be way off. Like a 20p @ 750yds is almost 5 minutes off of the app. The 22 dasher keeps closer to the app and much easier to navigate to a first shot hit.

Also the show put on by a 53gr vmax @ 4000fps isn't something you get with that 40gr 204.

Adam

 

[ab_bentley]

Adam,

I noticed for your 22 Dasher you chose CM rather than SS. Did you do that because CM is better than SS for rechambering due to throat wear?

I love reading your posts on the various forums; you are obviously highly experienced and have a massive knowledge of small caliber varminting.

I am a huge proponent of 20 cal bullets and have been doing research in recent months to up the ante to a 20 hot rod but your post about the 22 Dasher has me leaning that way. If you had to do it over again would you still choose the Dasher or would you consider another cartridge for the 53 gn Vmax such as the 22x47L or 22/250AI?


Thanks for your reply.

Phil Schmidt

@ratbuster

That barrel is SS, I asked X-caliber to heat treat after contour, that way through temper color would show. It's gun metal grey.
Thanks for the compliments, firearms are all i know.

Adam