THE FLYER ?

[rjtfroggy]

Why not call it just what it is. A MISS!

 

[Dgd6mm]

1.3moa 5 shot group at 1000 yards. How many of those size groups in a lifetime have you all had? And on video no less.... Flyer or not, he wasn't shooting for record. What did Erik say it was?

 

[Bill Norris]

1.3moa 5 shot group at 1000 yards. How many of those size groups in a lifetime have you all had? And on video no less.... Flyer or not, he wasn't shooting for record. What did Erik say it was?

Erik said he did not pull the shot when he and Speedy were discussing it.

 

[DanK3Pos]

I began getting clean barrel flyers which I had never experienced before. I traced it to my cleaning procedure, changed it, and the flyers disappeared. So, in this case, there was a causative agent at work and could be verified by testing.

What did you change that eliminated the problem? I assume that running a 90%+ alcohol patch down the barrel would remove anything left in the barrel from cleaning, but I've also always read to finish up with an oil patch down the barrel to avoid oxidation.

 

[JFrank]

1.3moa 5 shot group at 1000 yards. How many of those size groups in a lifetime have you all had? And on video no less.... Flyer or not, he wasn't shooting for record. What did Erik say it was?

None quite that small, unfortunately the wind blows rounds into groups as likely as out of a group so call them whatever but in Lr Br they are part of the group. We don’t get to watch groups develop on a screen, we fly blind and live with the results.

 

[Dgd6mm]

None quite that small, unfortunately the wind blows rounds into groups as likely as out of a group so call them whatever but in Lr Br they are part of the group. We don’t get to watch groups develop on a screen, we fly blind and live with the results.

Nice group. Been there, done that.

 

[K22]

What did you change that eliminated the problem? I assume that running a 90%+ alcohol patch down the barrel would remove anything left in the barrel from cleaning, but I've also always read to finish up with an oil patch down the barrel to avoid oxidation.

Ok, this is highly controversial, so I say up front that I'm not making any pronouncements, only stating my experience.

For a very long time I used Shooter's Choice only with a bronze brush and was completely satisfied. I never had clean barrel flyers or a need to foul the barrel for several shots before it held consistent point of impact. A few years ago, I had to change to an odorless solvent because the odor was having ill effects on a family member.

After reviewing the various solvents, I decided on Bore Tech C4 w/ bronze brush and Cu+2 for copper cleaning. I began getting clean barrel consistent flyers. Even worse, it took several shots to obtain a consistent point of impact. I couldn't figure out what was wrong because I was doing everything the "experts" claim is correct.

With the aid of a fellow shooter and some research I stumbled on a few proponents of the concept of maintaining copper equilibrium. At first I didn't believe any of it but decided to give it a try. I stop using Cu+2 and just used C4 with a bronze brush which does an outstanding job of removing carbon. Bingo, everything settle down and for the past few years, using this method everything has returned to normal.

Bottom line, the only conclusion I can think of is that I was removing too much copper. I suspect that C4 acts similar to Shooter's Choice relative to copper removal, it removes some but not much.

For technical explanation go to gunblue490's videos and watch the one of Cleaning Solvents and How to Clean Your Barrel Professionally. There are others too, but I would start with this one if you're interested then draw your own conclusions.

 

[Larry Koch]

The bottom line is. We shoot 5 shot groups because its easy to shoot small 3 shot groups, and even 4 shot groups. But 5 shots in a bag gun in one little hole at 100 plus yards distance takes repeatable perfection.

 

[MNBob]

Is it a flyer? what is a flyer? Is a flyer out of the group cause you missed a wind change? Because you have 2 kernels more powder in that cartridge than the others? Cause you had sand shift in the bag? Because the hottie that works at Bartlein walked by when the best rilfer in the shop was doing your barrel? Brass was thinner in that case? Primer had more compound in it than the rest? Or is a flyer some glitch we don't even know about? Or is a flyer some gremlin that only shows up when I have a screamer group going? This is a BS question cause until you know what causes a flyer and how to identify it and correct it A FLYER IS JUST AN EXCUSE. You missed the group! A guy once told me that when you have the perfect rifle how will you know if the center of gravity is in the same spot in all your bullets?

I think it’s important to remember that there may be a significant number of non-expert shooters looking to improve their shooting by reading posts like this. They may be searching for information and going down a rabbit hole because they have never heard of parallax. Every post regarding flyers goes in depth with all of the different possibilities except that nobody mentions parallax. Is it because everyone on these forums thinks it’s silly to talk about something so basic or because we assume that everyone already knows? In general, most beginners and average shooters know nothing about this very important aspect of accurate shooting. Let’s help them out.

 

[gpoldblue]

Erik Cortina's 1,000 yard target started out to be a 20 shot group..you can see the other 15 bullet holes in the target.just so happened the last 5 shots went according to the video,but it's actually a 20 shot group target. If it had been an itntentional 5 shot group,it would have been fired on a clean target.