The dreaded flyer-What to do?

[savagedasher]

Here we go again we are fixing the problem and we don't have any idea if it is vertical or horizontal . Or both . Smile Larry

 

[chkunz]

Here we go again we are fixing the problem and we don't have any idea if it is vertical or horizontal . Or both . Smile Larry

We do not know if there is a problem, it may simply be a 2 MOA gun and only a group or groups with sufficient shots will answer that question.

 

[LHSmith]

My top 3 guesses: 1/no allowance for conditions 2/ parallax 3/ tired brass (which I hope came from THAT chamber)

 

[Mulligan]

A couple of years ago I was working through the exact same thing with an early 700 7mag BDL.
After much frustration I visited the local Smith........borescope..........wait for it....
Clean the rifle, said Ray.
He let me take a peak...... 30 years of Hoppes #9 varnished in 30 years of carbon and copper.
Half a day with brushes, solvents and JB paste brought it around.
Good luck
CW

 

[savagedasher]

We do not know if there is a problem, it may simply be a 2 MOA gun and only a group or groups with sufficient shots will answer that question.

5 -2 give you the same answer as 2-5 or
1-10. With the 2 shot you can see when and what direction it is going . Larry

 

[parker_chp]

It sounds to me like you need to stick to one shot groups.

 

[savagedasher]

I cant tell you how many guns I have seen fix By change in the Nut holding the stock .
Larry

 

[ttfreestyle]

Gent's,

I recently acquired a Remington 700 BDL-7MM Rem Mag. It's an early to mid-80's vintage with the standard high gloss wooden stock. My uncle bought this gun new and it was shot very little.

The issue I'm having is that it has a tendency to throw flyers. It will group 2 shots touching and the 3rd will be anywhere from 1.0-2.0 inches out from the first two. Occasionally it will print a good group with all 3 together, but then next time I shoot a group with the same load, it pitches one out. I've tried several different powder and bullet combinations, and I also always let the barrel cool after each shot, but nothing seems to help.

For what it's worth, I had the stock pillar bedded by a local gunsmith on someones recommendation, but it didn't help. I've also tried a different scope. Not sure where to go next. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks in advance.

BD

I had this problem and it seemed no amount of testing diff charges or seating depths would help but I had used my favorite primer with all the loads tried, changed primer and the flier went away. I see where you have tried different powder and bullet combinations, maybe try a different primer.

 

[dmoran]

5 -2 give you the same answer as 2-5 or
1-10. With the 2 shot you can see when and what direction it is going . Larry

Larry -
The extreme spread relative efficiency of a 2-shot group string is only 66.5% relative to a 5-shot group string.
Two 5-shot groups strings would have 67% more relative

You may want to consider reading Range Statistics at Ballisticpedia or in NRA publications.
Donovan

 

[Baka]

Gent's,

I recently acquired a Remington 700 BDL-7MM Rem Mag. It's an early to mid-80's vintage with the standard high gloss wooden stock. My uncle bought this gun new and it was shot very little.

The issue I'm having is that it has a tendency to throw flyers. It will group 2 shots touching and the 3rd will be anywhere from 1.0-2.0 inches out from the first two. Occasionally it will print a good group with all 3 together, but then next time I shoot a group with the same load, it pitches one out. I've tried several different powder and bullet combinations, and I also always let the barrel cool after each shot, but nothing seems to help.

For what it's worth, I had the stock pillar bedded by a local gunsmith on someones recommendation, but it didn't help. I've also tried a different scope. Not sure where to go next. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks in advance.

BD

Pillars are bedded what about bedding the action?

 

[BD100]

Thanks for all the reply's. Lots of good suggestions.

I've addressed most of the usual suspects that have been mentioned. Barrel has been cleaned thoroughly with Bore Tech Eliminator(first thing I did when I received the gun). Scope, scope bases, rings have all been checked. Action screws have also been checked.

My reloading technique has served me well for years. As I mentioned, I'm more of a hunter than a BR guy. That being said, I have no problems turning out consistent ammo with my loading techniques. Could it be more precise? Absolutely!! I've already tried various combos of powders and bullets along with varying seating depths. Longer seating depths seem to work best. 3.30 is where I'm at currently. The bullet/powder combo that seems to be most consistent is a 154 SST with RL-25. The 160 Accubond has been a love/hate relationship. Just when I think I've found consistency...it spits one out of the group. Usually either high and or left/right. Never low. With the SST, if it spits one out, it's usually just high and not left or right.

What do guy's think about ditching the wood stock and getting a HS Precision or B&C stock? Don't have the money for a McMillian. I'd like to keep the gun original if possible, but if fixing the flyer issue means ditching the wood stock, I'll do it. What about bedding the action as remdog suggested?

 

[timeout]

Thanks for all the reply's. Lots of good suggestions.

I've addressed most of the usual suspects that have been mentioned. Barrel has been cleaned thoroughly with Bore Tech Eliminator(first thing I did when I received the gun). Scope, scope bases, rings have all been checked. Action screws have also been checked.

My reloading technique has served me well for years. As I mentioned, I'm more of a hunter than a BR guy. That being said, I have no problems turning out consistent ammo with my loading techniques. Could it be be more precise? Absolutely!! I've already tried various combos of powders and bullets along with varying seating depths. Longer seating depths seem to work best. 3.30 is where I'm at currently. The bullet/powder combo that seems to be most consistent is a 154 SST with RL-25. The 160 Accubond has been a love/hate relationship. Just when I think I've found consistency...it spits one out of the group. Usually either high and or left/right. Never low. With the SST, if it spits one out, it's usually just high and not left or right.

What do guy's think about ditching the wood stock and getting a HS Precision or B&C stock? Don't have the money for a McMillian. I'd like to keep the gun original if possible, but if fixing the flyer issue means ditching the wood stock, I'll do it. What about bedding the action as remdog suggested?

If the stock is properly bedded and the barrel is not touching the channel, I don't believe changing stocks will help. Will lighten your wallet a little though. For load testing rifles with a Sporter style stock I use a Sinclair F class bipod. I also like to have an anti cant device on to make certain that my cross hairs are perfectly level. Also use a rear rest that is compatible with the stock. These things are necessary for me to help make certain that flyers aren't the result of operator error.

 

[MrMajestic]

Have you tried any flat based bullets?

 

[BD100]

Have you tried any flat based bullets?

I have not.

 

[BoydAllen]

A couple of things
A couple of decades back I wrote a letter that became my first article in Precision Shooting magazine. I wrote it after working with a friend's .270 that seemed to have a definite preference for flat based bullets. (The question was why some barrels don't like BT bullets?) Since then, thanks to information that a friend has provided, I have become aware that the best accuracy comes when bullet OD matches barrel groove diameter, particularly when shooting BTs or bullets that do not "slug up" during firing due to their construction. Lead core FB bullets can and do expand to fit the bore, at which point the only concern is that there are not loose or tight spots in the bore, and that the muzzle ID is not larger than that in front of the chamber. Short version...try a FB bullet.

A second issue is how sensitive a particular rifle is to what it is rested on, and where on the stock it is supported. Hard bags, improperly placed can be a big problem for some rifles. Where is your front bag touching the stock, and how hard is your rear bag?

 

[1shot]

BD 100,
Which shot is the flier?

 

[Shynloco]

Alex
Your saying u shoot 45 shot whe tuning?
Larry

Larry,
No...guess I confused that. I shoot 10-15 rds (2-3/5shot groups) for testing and then 15 (3-5shot groups) for verification and score. I've never felt confident in 3 shot groups.

Alex

 

[savagedasher]

Larry,
No...guess I confused that. I shoot 10-15 rds (2-3/5shot groups) for testing and then 15 (3-5shot groups) for verification and score. I've never felt confident in 3 shot groups.

Alex

I like two better then 3 . When I change target it give me time to make sure I have the same condition and my gun set up works with the move . It will tell me if I have a vertical or horizontal load . If a condition bites me I haven't wasted a test. Each their own that is how I find works best.

 

[PDS]

It's a 7mm Rem Mag HUNTING RIFLE. If it holds it's zero and puts the first 2 shots out of a cold barrel touching each other you have what you need.

 

[Steve Ladino]

Gent's,

I recently acquired a Remington 700 BDL-7MM Rem Mag. It's an early to mid-80's vintage with the standard high gloss wooden stock. My uncle bought this gun new and it was shot very little.

The issue I'm having is that it has a tendency to throw flyers. It will group 2 shots touching and the 3rd will be anywhere from 1.0-2.0 inches out from the first two. Occasionally it will print a good group with all 3 together, but then next time I shoot a group with the same load, it pitches one out. I've tried several different powder and bullet combinations, and I also always let the barrel cool after each shot, but nothing seems to help.

For what it's worth, I had the stock pillar bedded by a local gunsmith on someones recommendation, but it didn't help. I've also tried a different scope. Not sure where to go next. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks in advance.

BD

Those era Remingtons were good rifles, accurate too. You are trying to get benchrest accuracy and you are close to it but you wont get there without benchrest quality bullets. Only Sierra and Berger make bullets capable for the most part, also custom names. Hold the 7 MM Mag tight but don't bend it by leaning on it or putting anything other than straight back pressure. Work with powder to one tenth grain inciments, seat bullets .010 off lands if your magazine can handle that length.