Tell me about your 223 FTR rifle

[mao0720]

Ive been thinking about putting together a dedicated midrange FTR rifle in 223 to save some money on reloading components vs my 308 FTR rifle, and because it just sounds like fun. Id like to hear about your guys 223 FTR rifles. What barrel length/ profile/ twist are you using? What freebore in the chamber? What bullet/powder/ are you using and what velocity are you achieving? Just trying to figure out what works well, and what direction I should be heading.

 

[XTR]

R700 action, bolt from PTG (i can switch barrels and bolts and shoot it as a 308 if need be)
Barrel - Lilja 3 groove 1:7 (button rifled) varmint contour finished 28" to the bolt face
Scope - NF NXS 12-42
Stock - PRT
Reamer PTG 223FTR reamer with a .169 freebore
Rifle weighs right at 18 lbs

I shoot 90VLDs in LC brass with SR Magnum primers, jam .010 over ~24.5gr of Varget.
(just FYI, pretty much everyone I have talked to who is running the 90s with success is running almost the exact same recipe usually ±.1 gr, some folks are jumping .010)

I get about 2800FPS and it shoots like a laser. I've run it back to 600. Never tried it at any longer lines. If I was buying a barrel and had time to wait I'd order a 30" heavy Palma with a 1:6.5, though for 600 the extra twist is probably not going to make any difference.

 

[Jdne5b]

R700 action, bolt from PTG (i can switch barrels and bolts and shoot it as a 308 if need be)
Barrel - Lilja 3 groove 1:7 (button rifled) varmint contour finished 28" to the bolt face
Scope - NF NXS 12-42
Stock - PRT
Reamer PTG 223FTR reamer with a .169 freebore
Rifle weighs right at 18 lbs

I shoot 90VLDs in LC brass with SR Magnum primers, jam .010 over ~24.5gr of Varget.
(just FYI, pretty much everyone I have talked to who is running the 90s with success is running almost the exact same recipe usually ±.1 gr, some folks are jumping .010)

I get about 2800FPS and it shoots like a laser. I've run it back to 600. Never tried it at any longer lines. If I was buying a barrel and had time to wait I'd order a 30" heavy Palma with a 1:6.5, though for 600 the extra twist is probably not going to make any difference.

Not that it really matters with LC brass, but what is your case life like? What kind of prep do you do to the LC brass?

 

[XTR]

I've got a ton of the stuff once fired from the early 90s(like a 5 gallon bucket full). It was all sized and swaged when I got it.

I haven't shot the 223 consistently enough to get an idea of case life. I got this rifle put together last yr., I messed around with the 223 a while back in a different rifle and used all kinds of loads in a different chamber so the brass I've been shooting recently is all over the place as far as firings and stresses.

I anneal every firing and I use a FL/busing die, sizing for .002 neck tension, trim if needed.

That varget load is not silly hot. Based on personal experience, that's where people get problems with the 90VLD; they try to run it up to 2900 or higher to get it out to 1000 with the 308s. I did that, and I never had any success getting it to shoot.

I shot this rifle at the short lines for the Spirit of America full bore matches at Raton. I think it was the last 300 yard match I shot a 100-8x and if I recall correctly at least one, if not both of my 10s were on convertible sighters. Keep it reasonable and it will hammer the spotter.

 

[mao0720]

Nice rifle, XTR! Thanks for the info. If anyone else out there is shooting a 223 in FTR either midrange or long range, tell us some detail about your rifle and load.

 

[Terry]

This will be my first year shooting traditional F-Class.
My .223 is a Savage LRPV with the 1:7 twist.
Shoots 80 Nosler CC bullets very well.
Bought some 90 Sierra's to try.

 

[Dgd6mm]

I have a Savage large shank action bedded in a Stockade Prairie Dog stock, Benchmark 26" heavy varmint barrel 1-8 twist throated for 75-80 gr. Amax's. I have not chronoed the load I'm shooting, but it shoots well out to 600 and will definitely hold it's own. I load 23.2 of H4895 in Remington brass using wsr primer.

 

[raptor1ronin]

Just built a .223 For FTR. Wanted to improve my wind reading skills so this is my rig. I shoot it at 500,600 Mid-range and 800,900 & 1000. At 500 it hammers see picture below. At 800 and 900 i dropped 2 points on each string. 1000 yards became tricky but it still shoots great if I do my part. I attached the 1K photo too.

Specs
Bartlein 32" HV Palma 1-6/7 twist 5R
(Barrel work by Scott Harris)
B&C A5 Stock - modified
Timmey 1.5lbs trigger
Duplin Bipod
Nightforce Scope
Defiance Action

Bullet - 90VLD
Brass - Lapua - Into my second reload brass is fine , primer pockets fine.
Powder - 24.3grns VARGET
FPS - 2820

Pictures
First Target 500 yards 200-17X
2ND Target 900 yards
3RD Target 1000 yards

 

[mao0720]

Nice, Raptor! What freebore length do you have in your chamber?

 

[wapiti25]

I built a 223 on a 700 action using a 40x stock, The barrel is a used Krieger 27" barrel 1: 8, jewel trigger. My best score @ 600yds was 434 out of 450. Shot that rifle in 8 club matches. I was using 80 gr Sierra over Varget @ 2840. The 6mm BR's were better. The one guy to beat was only dropping 1 or 2 points. The light variable winds killed me. I should try the 80 VLD. The 223 is fun to shoot. I have since bought a used 6 Dasher rifle and it has boosted me to several 448 and 447 scores.

 

[XTR]

I built a 223 on a 700 action using a 40x stock, used Krieger 27" barrel 1: 8, jewel trigger. My best score @ 600yds was 434 out of 450. Shot that rifle in 8 club matches. I was using 80 gr Sierra over Varget @ 2840. The 6mm BR's were better. The one guy to beat was only dropping 1 or 2 points. The light variable winds killed me. I should try the 80 VLD. The 223 is fun to shoot. I have since bought a used 6 Dasher rifle and it has boosted me to several 448 and 447 scores.

You went from F-TR to F-Open, I'd expect your scores to go up.

 

[raptor1ronin]

Nice, Raptor! What freebore length do you have in your chamber?

Freebore .215
I jump .20 off the lands loves it .

 

[raptor1ronin]

Over the last year or so, I've been shooting a GA Precision bolt rifle w Defiance Templar V2 action, McMillan A5 stock, Jewell trigger, 30" Bartlein 5R barrel (M24 contour, .218"/.224", 7-twist). Load is Lapua brass, Fed 205 primer, 24.0 gr H4895, Berger 90 VLD seated at ~.015" off the lands (chamber was cut with PTG Rem ISSF reamer - 0.169" freebore). Velocity at the sweet spot needs to be very close to 2850 fps, so optimal charge weight may change slightly from lot to lot of H4895. The predicted pressure for the 90 VLDs at 2850 fps is ~56-57K psi, and brass life is not so great; maybe 3-4 firings before the primer pockets are gone. Although frequent preps of new brass are somewhat of a PITA, I don't really worry all that much about brass costs when I'm winning competitions, primarily because I have a special tree in my backyard:

For those that insist on longer brass life, using a Varget load at somewhere in the neighborhood of 2800-2820 fps from a 30" barrel may be a little easier on the brass and extend its life further.

In 2015 using this setup, I came in 2nd place in F-TR at the Santa Margarita Gun Club Midrange Regional at Camp Pendleton, 1st Overall in F-TR at the Nebraska State Midrange Championship, won 1st Overall in F-TR at the California State Long Range Championship, and won several local matches including a 150-15X clean at 300 yd I was very pleased with that grouped well under one half MOA:

IMO, you really can't go wrong shooting 90s out of a .223 in F-TR out to 600 yd. They can be loaded with very good precision to velocities that simply aren't giving up very much to [most] .308 loads. At 1000 yd it's a slightly different story in that you'll be giving up substantially more wind resistance to someone shooting 200 Hybrids (or better) out of a .308. However, the .223 shooting 90s will hold it's own against most .308 load using 185s or less, even at 1000 yd. Further, the lack of recoil is certainly worth something in terms of accuracy/precision when compared to a .308, even one shooting the lighter 155s. The .223 is simply a pleasure to shoot in F-TR and it can most definitely be competitive.

What he said , Fun to Shoot!

 

[Jdne5b]

Now 90vlds are going to be even harder to get when Berger makes a run of them.

 

[raptor1ronin]

Funny you should say that. I have been waiting on a back-order since Feb15 here's what they said


John,


Thank you for getting with us here at Berger Bullets. Although our previous production schedule had us set to run these 22 caliber bullets in February, we have had to push production back to May. After a quick search I have found a dealer showing these bullets as in stock at Creedmoor Sports. I would suggest getting in contact with you to see if they can fill an order for you.


We greatly appreciate your patience as we understand that the long wait times are customers are incurring can be frustrating. We are working hard to get bullets produced and shipped as soon as possible and if you have any questions, please do not hesitate to get back with me.


Kind Regards,

Ryan Robertson

Marketing Specialist

ryan.robertson@bergerbullets.com

 

[raptor1ronin]

Perhaps, seeing the numerous posts like this one, the folks from Berger will appreciate the dramatically increased demand for the 90 VLDs and step up the number of production runs they do .

I hope so Greg!

 

[mao0720]

Ok, so a couple of questions to you guys. Is a 30" barrel necessary with a 223 given its low powder capacity? And if they 90gr VLD are as hard to get as you guys are saying, what is the best alternative bullet? The 90gr Sierra? the 80.5 or the 82gr Berger? Thanks for all the info, keep it coming!

 

[Jdne5b]

Ok, so a couple of questions to you guys. Is a 30" barrel necessary with a 223 given its low powder capacity? And if they 90gr VLD are as hard to get as you guys are saying, what is the best alternative bullet? The 90gr Sierra? the 80.5 or the 82gr Berger? Thanks for all the info, keep it coming!

I shot 80.5's and really liked them for 600. Most .308s and 90s are much better in the wind though.

 

[XTR]

Ok, so a couple of questions to you guys. Is a 30" barrel necessary with a 223 given its low powder capacity? And if they 90gr VLD are as hard to get as you guys are saying, what is the best alternative bullet? The 90gr Sierra? the 80.5 or the 82gr Berger? Thanks for all the info, keep it coming!

If you are building one and ordering a barrel then order a 30, Laurie says he had his best run shooting the 90s with a 31 I think.

My barrel is a 28", it was what was available when I needed it. I had planned to get the rifle ready for Camp Perry Mid range in 2014, but that didn't happen (long story about PT&G and missing delivery dates, lots of them).

This link used to go to a test someone here did on barrel length in a 223, but in the new forum my bookmark is broken

http://forum.accurateshooter.com/?topic=3634784.msg35034197#msg35034197

 

[raptor1ronin]

I shot 80.5's and really liked them for 600. Most .308s and 90s are much better in the wind though.

I use the 80VLD and love them. I shot them out of my other .223 gun(Which is set up for the 80VLD'S). At 500 and 600 they shoot lights out, but not as good as the 90'sVLD. I push them to 2960FPS with no pressure signs using 8208XBR and a 28" barrel.

Im going to Test the 90SMK soon, I talked to a Sierra guy yesterday about the .563 BC and how they came up with that. He told me they are now pointing those bullets and not to worry that they wont fall apart with the velocity im getting with the VLD'S. We will see.