Subsonic 308 without trail boss

[ScottMcc]

Dantiff that's exactly what I was worried about. Would unique or clays or something else be a better choice?

 

[dantiff2]

Dantiff that's exactly what I was worried about. Would unique or clays or something else be a better choice?

Try unique and let us know. ; )

 

[Orr89rocz]

Couldnt you use dacron or another filler to keep powder in place? Heard that is common on straight wall reduced loads

 

[SEM]

Blue dot getting down to sub is not quite as good as TiteGroup ... TiteGroup I use that s___ in everything no issues Hodgdons annual manual has the recipe for 168 gr bullets 8.0 gr 1080fps no filler needed, I have in larger cases used a small pull from a synthetic cotton ball just in case and a magnum primer if I really think it needs it

 

[Dan V.]

I have used 13.0 grains of red dot to fire form brass. I don't know what the velocity was but it was low. I got the load from an old handloaders digest.

 

[mic2377]

I have used Red Dot in ultra quiet 300 BLK loads. I am away from my load log books now, but it was in the range of 5.0 gr under a 110 gr bullet. This would in no way provide a cycling load in an AR-15, but provided around 1000 fps out of a 16" barrel. It was EXTREMELY quiet though (think movie suppressor type quiet) and quite accurate as well.

Red Dot is a very fluffy, fast-burning, and easy to ignite powder. I never experienced any position-related ignition issues with it, although if the case fill % gets too low (which it could in the 308 case) detonation could be an issue. It burns very completely in the loads I have use.

The last note about using fast burning powders like this in a rifle case is that pressures spike very quickly, and are they very dangerous in an overcharge situation. You can go from a mild-recoiling BB gun-like load to blowing up your action much more easily than any usual rifle powder.

 

[k260]

Couldnt you use dacron or another filler to keep powder in place? Heard that is common on straight wall reduced loads

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned it, it helps a lot. I have a friend working on a subsonic 308 load and asked me what to do about the extreme spread in velocity, he was getting about 60 fps, so I gave him some filler I cut up years ago. He called me the next day completely amazed that it made so much difference, it was 12fps difference in 10 rounds. What I used was pillow filler from Walmart, it was a sheet of it about 1/2" thick and I cut 3/4" squares, use a pencil or wooden dowel to lightly tamp it down on the powder and giddyup!

 

[SEM]

synthetic cotton balls work also pull off as much as you need

 

[Dave in WI]

No problems with filler through a suppressor?

 

[Infrequent Shooter]

Couldnt you use dacron or another filler to keep powder in place? Heard that is common on straight wall reduced loads

You read my mind. back in the day this was a common solution used by a lot of shooters. last several years or so, this has fallen waaay out of favor. I don't see a problem with it if a person was careful and consistent with his method. I assume some of the more 'seasoned' shooters on the board used to do it and didn't blow up their actions.

 

[rockhound78]

Not supposed to use fillers with the fast powders unless fireforming without a bullet. over on C/B, 13gr of red dot is supposed to be "the" load in '06 cases (The Harris load--google it) and I believe the 308 is a few grains less. But thats for lead alloy bullets (Boolits on C/B--to differentiate from jacketed bullets).

 

[Deepfork]

I use 8.6 grains of TiteGroup with a 180gr Winchester Power Point or 180gr Speer Hot-Cor. They Average 1070fps. Use Mag Primers, no filler. I've shot hundreds of them, never had one crack, never had ignition issues.

 

[The Chikn]

Do any of you have a 46th edition Lyman manual?
It is full of pistol powder loads for a 308 among others.
In an age where we can coat a hard cast lead bullet and eliminate leading, and fouling of a suppressor, the loss of Trailboss isn't a problem.

As to using LPP in place of LRP.
Yeah....it can be done. But why?
"LRP burns up the powder before it can build pressure."
Uh....say what now?
There are no loads in a lyman manual that tell you to use a LPP in a LRP pocket.
Burning up powder before it can build pressure is ridiculous.
Please expound on the concept for me in detail. And explain where the gasses go.

 

[The Chikn]

Here:


Buy a 46th edition Lyman. Its one of the finest references you will find anywhere on this subject.

300blk
Its a 45. Reduce the loads 10%, use similar weight bullets, use cast for cast and jacketed for jacketed loads.

 

[effendude]

Here:
View attachment 1494599

Buy a 46th edition Lyman. Its one of the finest references you will find anywhere on this subject.

300blk
Its a 45. Reduce the loads 10%, use similar weight bullets, use cast for cast and jacketed for jacketed loads.

None of those loads are subsonic which the OP asked for.....

 

[OmegaRed]

You could probably go the route that 45-70 guys sometimes do for light pop-gun loads and run a very small charge of Unique. I think they run in the range of 10-15 grains in that huge case, mind you that is usually done with cast bullets.

That's what I do. Subsonic for my stuff is usually under 12 gr

 

[RiflePainter]

I have loaded Unique with 190 Sub-Xs that worked well

 

[DShortt]

Speaking of availability problems, any of yous guys seen any Unique on a shelf lately? Or any Alliant power for that matter?

Apologies for the thread drift.

 

[mic2377]

I dont think the Lyman manual was off base. It had some good suggestions for low pressure loads which is the first step for developing a good subsonic load.

Also after this thread got started I went looking for another pound of Red Dot and it is OOS everywhere!!! I don't know if other shotgun powders will also work

 

[Dan V.]

Check the trap ranges if you have any near you. some times they sell components. If not, they might be able to direct you to someone who has some Red Dot.