Stretched my PD record out to 2200 yards with witness...

[WyleWD]

Ron, thanks for the story and the pictures. That was a heck of a shot. WD

 

[people]

Those who can't will put out the hate.

Good shooting.

 

[fredo]

This is the method I used to range my 2200 yard hit, and I used a conservative distance to make sure I wasn't overestimating it. We were able to precisely locate our bench and the target mound. When shooting at that kind of distance, I am not concerned with having an exact yardage. Plus or minus ten yards is not a big deal out there, but the google maps app is much more accurate than that. Another item of note is that the bench was set up in exactly the same location it was when I made my 1820 yard kill in May 2014. We could tell the 2200 yard mound was considerably further, which is why I was shooting at it.

Just for chits & giggles, I ran ballistics @ 2200yds for a 180VLD @ 2900 fps.
DA of 5K, temp 80°F
Prolly not exactly OP's situation, but...its a high b.c. .284 cal launched at average speed for case, therefore close enough to make a point. And I will keep things in inches, to help illustrate this point...

@2200yds, bullet drop is: ~2238 INCHES

@ 2210yds, bullet drop is: ~2270 INCHES

@ 2220yds, bullet drop is: ~2302 INCHES

Point being, at that extreme distance, every 10yds of mis-calculated range results in ~32 inches of drop error.

Repeat:

A range error of only 10yds, and a 180VLD misses an 8-10" tall p-dog vertically by almost THREE FEET.

Let that math sink on for a second...

 

[Milo 2.0]

Just for chits & giggles, I ran ballistics @ 2200yds for a 180VLD @ 2900 fps.
DA of 5K, temp 80°F
Prolly not exactly OP's situation, but...its a high b.c. .284 cal launched at average speed for case, therefore close enough to make a point. And I will keep things in inches, to help illustrate this point...

@2200yds, bullet drop is: ~2238 INCHES

@ 2210yds, bullet drop is: ~2270 INCHES

@ 2220yds, bullet drop is: ~2302 INCHES

Point being, at that extreme distance, every 10yds of mis-calculated range results in ~32 inches of drop error.

Repeat:

A range error of only 10yds, and a 180VLD misses an 8-10" tall p-dog vertically by almost THREE FEET.

Let that math sink on for a second...

If you look into your equation even further, with these parameters given, the bullet would be subsonic at 1800 yards.

 

[lrgoodger]

Just for chits & giggles, I ran ballistics @ 2200yds for a 180VLD @ 2900 fps.
DA of 5K, temp 80°F
Prolly not exactly OP's situation, but...its a high b.c. .284 cal launched at average speed for case, therefore close enough to make a point. And I will keep things in inches, to help illustrate this point...

@2200yds, bullet drop is: ~2238 INCHES

@ 2210yds, bullet drop is: ~2270 INCHES

@ 2220yds, bullet drop is: ~2302 INCHES

Point being, at that extreme distance, every 10yds of mis-calculated range results in ~32 inches of drop error.

Repeat:

A range error of only 10yds, and a 180VLD misses an 8-10" tall p-dog vertically by almost THREE FEET.

Let that math sink on for a second...

Yep. That's why you can't calculate it, laser it or GPS it. You have to fire shots to zero on the mound, and then you still have the normal group dispersion, so it usually takes several shots to get one that is centered. Now, about normal group dispersion. Below is a typical 200 yard target from my .284. This is the kind of gun it takes. You can't do it with a 50 grain V-max and a .204. If you take the .17" group and multiply by 22 (for 2200 yards), you get a group dispersion of 3.74". Think that would hit a prairie dog? Even if you take the .51" group, you get a dispersion of only 11.22". Some of those are going to hit the dog. Granted, everything has to be perfect (a stable bench, wind, mirage and walking the bullet in to zero), and even then the odds are against you. That is why this is not a one shot cold barrel game. Luck? There is some, granted, but the element of luck can be reduced proportionally by the quality of equipment and shooting in the right conditions using correct technique. I've connected twice now in less than 50 shots each time. Once at 1820 yards and again at 2200 yards. Did I get lucky twice, or did I just cover every possible base in reducing the element of luck? A lot of work? Yes. I spent five years working on equipment and technique. Expensive? Double yes. You can't do it with an off the shelf rifle, even if it is a Savage LRPV (the most accurate factory rifle I know of). It takes top drawer equipment all the way to consistently shoot groups like you see below, and that is what it takes to make the long, long shots every once in a while.

 

[johnmyers]

Great accomplishment Ron

 

[lrgoodger]

Yep. That's why you can't calculate it, laser it or GPS it. You have to fire shots to zero on the mound, and then you still have the normal group dispersion, so it usually takes several shots to get one that is centered. Now, about normal group dispersion. Below is a typical 200 yard target from my .284. This is the kind of gun it takes. You can't do it with a 50 grain V-max and a .204. If you take the .17" group and multiply by 22 (for 2200 yards), you get a group dispersion of 3.74". Think that would hit a prairie dog? Even if you take the .51" group, you get a dispersion of only 11.22". Some of those are going to hit the dog. Granted, everything has to be perfect (a stable bench, wind, mirage and walking the bullet in to zero), and even then the odds are against you. That is why this is not a one shot cold barrel game. Luck? There is some, granted, but the element of luck can be reduced proportionally by the quality of equipment and shooting in the right conditions using correct technique. I've connected twice now in less than 50 shots each time. Once at 1820 yards and again at 2200 yards. Did I get lucky twice, or did I just cover every possible base in reducing the element of luck? A lot of work? Yes. I spent five years working on equipment and technique. Expensive? Double yes. You can't do it with an off the shelf rifle, even if it is a Savage LRPV (the most accurate factory rifle I know of). It takes top drawer equipment all the way to consistently shoot groups like you see below, and that is what it takes to make the long, long shots every once in a while.


View attachment 1013328

I made a mistake in the dispersion calculations above. Those are 200 yard groups on the target. To get 100 yard equivalents, they have to be divided by 2 (then multiplied by 22, or simply multiplied by 11). So.......(get this) equivalent dispersion on those groups at 2200 yards is .17x11=1.87" and .51x11=5.61". That definitely reduces the luck element.

 

[CaptainMal]

Wonderful shot. At that range the bullet is almost coming straight down. Thanks for sharing your thrill with us.

As for the negative comments, some would question why their mother born them. Today that kind of hostility just seems to come with the territory. Ignore it.

 

[bloc]

Well, nuts. I’d give my right . . . er . . . antler . . . to have made such a shot at even half the distance. A thousand congratulations to you (and other real LR shooters!)

As someone who’s shot ground squirrels for the past several years, I have yet to confirm a hit at even 300 yards.

I have accumulated several VERY acurate rifles(1) but my “bragging” shot was at 280 yards (lasered from carcass to shooting bench).

Granted, the squirrels I shoot usually measure roughly 7 inches from top of head to base of tail, though my 280 yard kill was smaller.

But my self-esteem would be impervious to almost anything were I to hit something at, oh, say, 450 yards.

Sir, I kiss your ring!


1. A Stevens 200 in .223 (Nikon 6-18 Buckmaster mildot). A Savage LRPV in .223, a Savage LRP in .243 and a doggy old Win 70 in .225 Win. The last 3 each has Nightforce 5.5-22 scope. All are << 1 MOA.

 

[fredo]

Wonderful shot. At that range the bullet is almost coming straight down. Thanks for sharing your thrill with us.

As for the negative comments, some would question why their mother born them. Today that kind of hostility just seems to come with the territory. Ignore it.

Sir, if you are referring to my priors posts:

it's quite possible the internet allowed the 'tone' of them as being more "negative" than intended, but let me be VERY clear. They were certainly NOT meant to be "hostile" toward OP. Was simply interjecting a contrary experience, and supplied some relevant data to those who may not be adequately up to speed on LR/ELR bullet trajectory...

Beyond that, milo-2 made note that the bullet would likely have been transonic for ~400yds before impact @ 2200yds. There are all matter of emerging data surrounding transonic/subsonic ballistics that I'm not familiar with. However, it can be sufficiently stated that some bullets don't exactly behave ideally thru transonic velocity, therefore further degrading accuracy at extended distance...

That said, instead of turning this thread into a "haters" match, why not let's keep discussing the challenges of LR/ELR shooting? After all, this is ACCURATE shooter, isn't it?

P.S.
you might note I 'guessed' the bullet weight and muzzle velocity (180 @ 2900) the OP used almost to the "T", with the error only in bullet design (VLD/Hybrid). So, I didn't exactly just fall off the apple cart...

 

[Prose]

I was so impressed by this thread until I read about the Canadian Sniper at 2.2 miles Kidding. Both miraculous.

I'm heading out dogging this weekend.. will be pondering about which shot had the statistically better chance of hitting it's target. 3" prairie dog at 2200 with 7mm or 20" (wide) man at ~3800 with .50 cal. Can anyone run the numbers like lrgoodger did above?

 

[Milo 2.0]

I was so impressed by this thread until I read about the Canadian Sniper at 2.2 miles Kidding. Both miraculous.

I'm heading out dogging this weekend.. will be pondering about which shot had the statistically better chance of hitting it's target. 3" prairie dog at 2200 with 7mm or 20" (wide) man at ~3800 with .50 cal. Can anyone run the numbers like lrgoodger did above?

Haha, first off a human is not going to let you take 49 shots before he gets whacked. Every 100 yards you go past 2K, the more variables or obstacles come into play, different wind patterns, terrain, and they add up fast.
Both were good shots with luck involved, myself, would rather hear of more ELR sniper kills than on prairie dogs.
I cannot answer your question, a pdog is tiny, human not so, but the 1600 yards separating them makes it interesting.

 

[people]

Haha, first off a human is not going to let you take 49 shots before he gets whacked. Every 100 yards you go past 2K, the more variables or obstacles come into play, different wind patterns, terrain, and they add up fast.
Both were good shots with luck involved, myself, would rather hear of more ELR sniper kills than on prairie dogs.
I cannot answer your question, a pdog is tiny, human not so, but the 1600 yards separating them makes it interesting.

That they won't but I bet he shot many rounds at that distance when this person popped up. So when he fired he had a very good idea about his dope should be.

 

[Milo 2.0]

That they won't but I bet he shot many rounds at that distance when this person popped up. So when he fired he had a very good idea about his dope should be.

No clue on that one, was not there nor have I read the details, just know whacking a scumbag makes me feel better. lol

 

[lrgoodger]

Well, nuts. I’d give my right . . . er . . . antler . . . to have made such a shot at even half the distance. A thousand congratulations to you (and other real LR shooters!)

As someone who’s shot ground squirrels for the past several years, I have yet to confirm a hit at even 300 yards.

I have accumulated several VERY acurate rifles(1) but my “bragging” shot was at 280 yards (lasered from carcass to shooting bench).

Granted, the squirrels I shoot usually measure roughly 7 inches from top of head to base of tail, though my 280 yard kill was smaller.

But my self-esteem would be impervious to almost anything were I to hit something at, oh, say, 450 yards.

Sir, I kiss your ring!


1. A Stevens 200 in .223 (Nikon 6-18 Buckmaster mildot). A Savage LRPV in .223, a Savage LRP in .243 and a doggy old Win 70 in .225 Win. The last 3 each has Nightforce 5.5-22 scope. All are << 1 MOA.

"(and other real LR shooters!)" LR meaning Long Range, of course! It just jumped out at me. My username is my first two initials and last name, as is my email. That would be LRGoodger (the R is Ronald or Ron). Get it? From now on you guys can just call me Long Range Goodger.

As for the bullet going subsonic, yes it did. After I read in the VHA magazine where those guys make 2000+ yard kills with a 6XC (the one where that guy sent in a photo of the dead dog in thigh high grass), I knew a bullet on the right trajectory couldn't be affected all that much by going subsonic, or else it wobbled INTO the correct trajectory instead of out of it.

 

[Bill K]

Ron. I may have missed it, but first off congrats on that shot/hit. I have not made any, so far, as far. Curious however, what is your rifle caliber, barrel twist and what optics are you using ? I would imagine it is a very good heavy bench/rail type weapon, with you using a very solid Rest/tri-pod set up. Correct ? Anyway thank you for you details.

 

[ebb]

Irgoodger, impressive, very impressive.

 

[lrgoodger]

Ron. I may have missed it, but first off congrats on that shot/hit. I have not made any, so far, as far. Curious however, what is your rifle caliber, barrel twist and what optics are you using ? I would imagine it is a very good heavy bench/rail type weapon, with you using a very solid Rest/tri-pod set up. Correct ? Anyway thank you for you details.

All of that information is there in my second post to this thread.

 

[Bill K]

All of that information is there in my second post to this thread.

Thank you, will go back and re-read it.

I found it. Sounds like a good set-up.

 

[rifleman700]

Dang it! No VHA anymore to submit those long shots to. My previous record of 1820 yards was in the Fall 2016 Varmint Hunter magazine. In case you missed it, my post about that is here;

http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/i-did-it-1820-yard-pd-with-vha-witness.3846054/

When my best friend Rick from my teenage years showed up on my doorstep after 44 years last November, we got re-acquainted and I showed him that article and a lot of photos on my computer. "I usually go around the end of May", I told him. "We can go if you want." "I've never done that", he said, "Let's do it!"

We made the trip and he watched as I set up the gun (same 284 Shehane with a new barrel) and zeroed in on some mounds. It took less than 50 shots total, including zeroing, to make the hit. He was impressed by bullet flight times and started timing them while watching through my big spotting scope. When the dog flew off the mound at 2200 yards and thrashed around on the ground, he excitedly exclaimed, "You got him! It took seven seconds." I had plenty of time to put the gun back in place and watch the hit myself.

Rick made a couple of hits at 750 yards the next day. He is a Vietnam vet and the only dogs he had ever killed before were the two legged kind, but he did that as a helicopter tail gunner. He had no experience with long range rifles. We settled in to close range slaughter for the rest of the trip. He was a good student and had the best kill to shots fired ratio of anyone I have ever taught, but I think all the blood and guts may have stirred up his PTSD a bit. He told me a lot of war stories in the evenings after a day of shooting. I'm really glad I didn't have to go over there.

Ron

Before any other haters pile on you may want to change the date of the VHA article. I think they closed the doors in 2014 if I remember correctly.

Nice shooting Ron!!