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Still debating, 223 vs 22ARC

urbanrifleman said:
My opinion? (Just my opinion and nothing else).

22 arc is such a weird choice in a bolt gun. First thing is that it requires an oddball bolt face that can't be used for pretty much anything else. It will not compete with a 22br in any category, I doubt it will do anything better than a 223 Ackley. If this is about brass then 223 is by far the best choice. Laupa 6br brass is by far the best reloading brass on the planet. Any pennies saved at the beginning on brass using a 22br will not matter after 20 reloads (which is typical for Lapua).

It was a cartridge specifically developed to run in an AR-15. Well... The guy who developed it made it for across the course, and then Hornady pretty much knocked it off, I suppose.

I have people call and inquire about the 22 arc about every 4 or 5 months. Pretty much every one that doesn't go somewhere else goes home with a 22br and is so very happy. Because that's what the 22br does, makes people happy. I would say the 223 makes even more people happy. Because it's just easy peasy and works.
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Im with him.

I don't really think the ARC is going to last due to the weird bolt face. It will be a specialty thing for gas guns and thats about it. I would have done a 22br if I didn't have an old doner 223 action to rebarrel to 223ai. Heck, the fireforming loads just hammer.
 
RabbitSlayer said:
Im with him.

I don't really think the ARC is going to last due to the weird bolt face.
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It's "weird bolt face".

Just left a site that listed bolt face diameters. .445" bolt face for the ARC and Grendel along with 2 other common listed but did not include the 22ARC or Grich. Then there was the .384" Bolt face which includes the 223, 300 Blackout, 204 and 6 others that are rarely seen like 3 different Noslers, 222 and the 350 Legend.

I work at one of the largest outdoor ranges in Wisconsin and have been for 4 +years. I see 223 every day, the 350 on rare occasions, the 300 is also falling by the wayside. I have yet to see a Nosler and during this time ave only encountered the 204 twice and still haven't seen a 17 Rem.

So explain how it isn't any more weird than the .445" bolt face.

Or how about the weird belted cartridges?

But this is wandering far from the intent of the question I asked.
 
KMW 1954 said:
It's "weird bolt face".

Just left a site that listed bolt face diameters. .445" bolt face for the ARC and Grendel along with 2 other common listed but did not include the 22ARC or Grich. Then there was the .384" Bolt face which includes the 223, 300 Blackout, 204 and 6 others that are rarely seen like 3 different Noslers, 222 and the 350 Legend.

I work at one of the largest outdoor ranges in Wisconsin and have been for 4 +years. I see 223 every day, the 350 on rare occasions, the 300 is also falling by the wayside. I have yet to see a Nosler and during this time ave only encountered the 204 twice and still haven't seen a 17 Rem.

So explain how it isn't any more weird than the .445" bolt face.

Or how about the weird belted cartridges?

But this is wandering far from the intent of the question I asked.
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What? Cuz there are millions upon millions of 223 and 556 all over the world for 60+years. There are millions upon millions of 308 and 3006 and their derivatives. How many millions of Arcs and grendels are there? How many factory guns have ever been made with a grendel size bolt face? Yeah, a tiny fraction. Who even owns the right size shell holder? Yep, approximately no one in comparison...
 
RabbitSlayer said:
Im with him.

I don't really think the ARC is going to last due to the weird bolt face. It will be a specialty thing for gas guns and thats about it. I would have done a 22br if I didn't have an old doner 223 action to rebarrel to 223ai. Heck, the fireforming loads just hammer.
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I think there is a lot of merit to that. The .22 Nosler , Valkyrie, 22 ARC are all quite similar in what they do relative to caliber, velocity, etc. I think the Valkyrie is getting the better diversity in brass availability as I guess the manufacturers saw the potential for the scads of shooters wanting to shoot heavies in the A/R's. The ARC kicks that up a bit more. Seems every bullet manufacturer wants to label something as their own - despite being not being significantly better than their competitor. I guess that is all good. Keeps us busy trying stuff out. Kind of like the 7 PRC versus 7 mm Rem Mag. The PRC has gotten rid of the belt and improved the throating but, in the end, the velocity is about the same, so no real reason to switch for someone who owns an accurate 7 MM Rem Mag- but does technically give a new rifle owner a slightly better setup. Regarding those bolt faces, they are pretty "thin" on these cartridges mentioned. I don't normally run hot loads but still managed to blow a few 6.5 Grendel bolts - but that is probably a more extreme example of getting a thin bolt.
 
urbanrifleman said:
22br heating up barrels? Hmmm... I had not experienced that. We use less than 30 grains of powder across the board. I don't really see that as being "hot".

My 243 shot 46 grains of powder. That got hot. Still didn't care. Hahaha
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Yeah - the heat buildup with that little bit of extra powder on the BR is quite noticeable in my heavy contour 26" and 28" tubes during sustained strings of fire on the squirrel battlefield. I know what you speak of with that .243! Mine is good for about ten shots. ha!
 
vonb said:
The ARC calibers are interesting for sure. However, for me, the .223 has to be my favorite caliber. It can do the most with the least and economy is #1 for me. For the pdog fields, it's where it's at for volume shooting.
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Someone please post their additional performance over a 223/223a.

Our standard pdog load is a 50 bk at 3850 fps in a 223a. We fireform with the same at 3650 fps. So, the Arc just smokes that?
 
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urbanrifleman said:
Someone please post there additional performance over a 223/223a.

Our standard pdog load is a 50 bk at 3850 fps in a 223a. We fireform with the same at 3650 fps. So, the Arc just smokes that?
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Marketing and the internet always cloud the picture. The 22ARC in an AR shows possibly a very small increase in velocity over the 5.56 at 52,000 PSI with equal bullet weights and barrel lengths. I would not buy the ARC.

The 6MM ARC does have an advantage over the 5.56 but if you're sticking strictly to ballistics comparing a 20" 5.56 shooting hand loaded 68 grain match to a 16" 6MM ARC with 105 grain Hornady Black the only real advantage is improved wind drift and energy on target. Bullet drop is very similar.

The real advantage is carrying a shorter rifle.
 
David Milisock said:
Marketing and the internet always cloud the picture. The 22ARC in an AR shows possibly a very small increase in velocity over the 5.56 at 52,000 PSI with equal bullet weights and barrel lengths. I would not buy the ARC.

The 6MM ARC does have an advantage over the 5.56 but if you're sticking strictly to ballistics comparing a 20" 5.56 shooting hand loaded 68 grain match to a 16" 6MM ARC with 105 grain Hornady Black the only real advantage is improved wind drift and energy on target. Bullet drop is very similar.

The real advantage is carrying a shorter rifle.
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Exactly my point.

I don't think there is any real debate unless someone can post some real numbers.

My guess??? Real world numbers will most likely show ZERO advantage over a regular old 223 at NATO pressures (which is pretty standard for most bolt gun loads these days). And will most likely fall short of a 223a. But I am willing to be proven wrong.
 
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searcher said:
I think there is a lot of merit to that. The .22 Nosler , Valkyrie, 22 ARC are all quite similar in what they do relative to caliber, velocity, etc. I think the Valkyrie is getting the better diversity in brass availability as I guess the manufacturers saw the potential for the scads of shooters wanting to shoot heavies in the A/R's. The ARC kicks that up a bit more. Seems every bullet manufacturer wants to label something as their own - despite being not being significantly better than their competitor. I guess that is all good. Keeps us busy trying stuff out. Kind of like the 7 PRC versus 7 mm Rem Mag. The PRC has gotten rid of the belt and improved the throating but, in the end, the velocity is about the same, so no real reason to switch for someone who owns an accurate 7 MM Rem Mag- but does technically give a new rifle owner a slightly better setup. Regarding those bolt faces, they are pretty "thin" on these cartridges mentioned. I don't normally run hot loads but still managed to blow a few 6.5 Grendel bolts - but that is probably a more extreme example of getting a thin bolt.
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The bolt thing is why my important stuff AR’s stay 223/5.56.
 
Just my take on it. I am considering building my first AR15 so I can go shoot with my brother who has one in .223. Mine will be either a .22 or 6 ARC. Just to have something different to play with. If I were to build another bolt rifle, it would be a .22BR for sure. Just a fantastic little round especially with an 8 twist.
Paul
 
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