Still debating, 223 vs 22ARC

[Idaho-Lefty]

I would try the .22 ARC just to try something different. Based on a PPC case, the potential for accuracy could be amazing. How many .223 rifles does one person need! I do like a good .223 for sure. I am having a blast with my .223, 8 twist Tikka at the moment though. Playing with the 62 ELD-VT bullet. My next may be a .22 ARC though. Just do it.
Paul

Read the TOP Line. The Design of the .22 ARC is, CLOSE to, the "Famously Accurate", .22 PPC.
Do some Research on HERE as to, what,.. Bullets, Cart's, Powders and, Barrel Twists, are Necessary to, WIN at, 200 and 300 Yard, Bench rest Comp's. ( Then, Try to Duplicate, "Most" of,.. It )
You can find, an ANSWER to, almost "Anything" on THIS Site,.. IF, you Do,.. the Research.

 

[Idaho-Lefty]

Last I Heard, was that, 58, 62 and 68 grain, Flat Based "Custom" Bullets in, a 13 Twist, Barrel was Winning, shooting some Form of, .22 BR, .22 BRA,.. .22 PPC, Etc
IDK for sure,.. BUT,.. the INFO,.. IS,. out there

 

[Fuj]

Last I Heard, was that, 62 and 68 gr Flat Based "Custom" Bullets in, a 13 Twist, Barrel was Winning, shooting some Form of, .22 Br, .22 BRA,.. .22 PPC, Etc
IDK for sure,.. BUT,.. the INFO,.. IS,. out there

Get ahold of Danny Hensley for .22 cal bullets. Also check with Mike Ezell
(gunsandgunssmithing) about them.......And yeah, get the notion of those
fast twist barrels out of your head. For what it's worth (again)......Talk your-
self into a 22PPC. And also with a cold one in your hand, research anything
and everything about the 22BR.. Standard .473 bolt face is an easy button.

 

[KMW 1954]

Alright, another argument perspective.

I am already shooting and loading for the 223 so it would be simple to just change bullets and seating settings.. Already have 4 years experience in loading and shooting this cartridge so there is that familiarity with it. At the same time I feel as though I have taken this Savage 9 twist 223 as far as it will go. It's as good as it's going to get.

No real interest in shooting light bullets otherwise I would just stay with the 223 and a slow twist prefit barrel.

In the environment I shoot already with my 69gr bullets I see them being pushed around by the wind and when I shoot the 60gr VMAX it is even more pronounced. Much more so than when shooting my 105gr 6mm.

Even trough this thread and all the self talking I feel I am still no closer to a decision. As was previously mentioned; try it and regret it or don't try it and regret it. sure wish I could afford to do both.

 

[David Milisock]

Experiencing metal lock trying to decide between re-barrelling. I have three Savage actions available, two of which are candidates for a new barrel. One is a Model 10 223 with a blind magazine that I truly love. It currently has a Model 12 26" Varmint barrel that still shoots just under .5MOA pretty easily with 69gr bullets. Would love to have this with a much faster twist. The other is a Model 110 Switchback 6ARC that I purchased used and it just didn't shoot at all. It now has a Shilen 28" 4 groove Bull barrel on it that shoots fantastic. It is staying as is. Lastly is a Model 11 that currently has the old 6ARC barrel on it and this is the one with the most probability of a new barrel.

My dilemma for this action is do I put a fast twist 223 barrel on it are do I go ahead and try the 22ARC? The whole foundation for this rifle will be bench target shooting out to 300yds. The 223 will give up a little speed but it will also use less powder so it should be a bit cheaper to shoot.. In all honesty I am highly intrigued by the ARC and I am already set with a bolt head for it.

I own a a 6MM ARC, AR15, a 5.56 2O inch A2 AR15 and a 22 inch 223 Howa 1,500.
Looking at load data I'm not seeing much difference to write home about in bolt rifles. The AR in 22 ARC does show some ballistic improvement over the 5.56.

 

[searcher]

I pondered this situation a few years back, having a number of .223's, 20P's and a .17 hornet on the small end- and 6BR, 6 Dasher and .243 on the "upper end" for varmints. I wanted to shoot a heavier bullet than my 1-12, and 1-9 twist .223's would shoot, but wanted to keep the recoil down for good sight picture and be able to shoot long strings of fire without getting the barrel hot as occurs with the BR, Dasher and .243.

At the time, a few choices I pondered were the .22 Nosler and the newer Valkyrie - both upping the .223 velocity by a solid 10%+ with heavier bullets. Just right for high-volume shooting. I chose the .22 Nosler due to the throating being better for varmint-weight bullets. I liked the two A/R's I assembled so much, I had a bolt gun built on a BAT action. I am a solid fan of the .223, but there is no contest with the faster speed of the .22 Nosler and the accuracy in my A/R's is great and the bolt gun fantastic. Even shooting a lighter bullet like a 52 grain target bullet at the much faster speeds will help a lot in conditions. Going with the heavier, high BC bullets adds to the attraction. In my opinion - it is a bit better than a .223 Ackley, plus no fireforming. Only downside is brass choices and price.

Like the .22 ARC, the .22 Nosler is lacking a diversity of brass choices - the only .22 Nosler brass being from Nosler and "Dogtown" brass from MIDWAYUSA, which is also reportedly made by Nosler at a reduced price. The Nosler brass is priced quite high, especially compared to most brands of .223, short of Lapua. on the plus side, I have found it to be very good brass in terms of life and accuracy. The .22 ARC, at present, is the same kind of deal brass-wise. When I ordered my reamer for my bolt gun, I felt certain other manufacturers would eventually make brass for the .22 Nosler - but none so far. I'd not bet that there will be many companies making the .22 ARC brass - though it may happen. If it doesn't, you should at least consider whether being able to get various brands of brass is really important to you. Seems there is a better mousetrap out every year these days. For 300 yard targets, choosing between the .223 and .22 ARC - I'd definitely go with the ARC. One doesn't need Lapua brass to be competitive, as nice as it is. I still have a few .22 Nosler barrels for my bolt gun to shoot out, but if I were doing that build now, I'd be doing the ARC for my purposes.

 

[KMW 1954]

searcher, I have truly fallen in love with my 6ARC bolt rifle and have just completed my best ever league season with it. I also love and respect the lowly 223. As a fact I have just pulled it out and will be shooting it again all summer just to keep proficient and keep costs down.

At one time I seriously considered a 22-250 but once again returned to the question of, "do I really need to burn that much powder just to punch holes in paper?"

So while using this 223 and working on form, posture and trigger control, I think I will also take this time to work more on reading wind. So the 223 still has a place.

I believe I have decided to go with a 22 ARC build based on a Savage action along with a Criterion barrel and then this stock,, https://richardsmicrofitgunstocks.com/product/laminated-wood-benchmark-style/ with an added https://atlasworxs.com/shop/atlasworxs-adjustable-cheek-comb-riser/.

Then next winters project will be to rebarrel the 223. This to me seems to make the most sense!

 

[NZ_Fclass]

One of the most developed and popular cartridges in the world, with plentiful cheap or reasonably priced premium brass vs., a wildcat based on a Hornady case that you can't shoot in FTR? Let me think...

Love the 6 ARC, BTW, planning on one sometime soon.

 

[SKWERLZ]

searcher, I have truly fallen in love with my 6ARC bolt rifle and have just completed my best ever league season with it. I also love and respect the lowly 223. As a fact I have just pulled it out and will be shooting it again all summer just to keep proficient and keep costs down.

At one time I seriously considered a 22-250 but once again returned to the question of, "do I really need to burn that much powder just to punch holes in paper?"

So while using this 223 and working on form, posture and trigger control, I think I will also take this time to work more on reading wind. So the 223 still has a place.

I believe I have decided to go with a 22 ARC build based on a Savage action along with a Criterion barrel and then this stock,, https://richardsmicrofitgunstocks.com/product/laminated-wood-benchmark-style/ with an added https://atlasworxs.com/shop/atlasworxs-adjustable-cheek-comb-riser/.

Then next winters project will be to rebarrel the 223. This to me seems to make the most sense!

In a bolt gun I’m surprised you went 6arc
I’d do 6/6.5 grendle and get that extra case capacity the 6.5 grendle and 22 arc has.

 

[SKWERLZ]

I pondered this situation a few years back, having a number of .223's, 20P's and a .17 hornet on the small end- and 6BR, 6 Dasher and .243 on the "upper end" for varmints. I wanted to shoot a heavier bullet than my 1-12, 1-9 and 1-8 twist .223's would shoot, but wanted to keep the recoil down for good sight picture and be able to shoot long strings of fire without getting the barrel hot as occurs with the BR, Dasher and .243.

At the time, a few choices I pondered were the .22 Nosler and the newer Valkyrie - both upping the .223 velocity by a solid 10%+ with heavier bullets. Just right for high-volume shooting. I chose the .22 Nosler due to the throating being better for varmint-weight bullets. I liked the two A/R's I assembled so much, I had a bolt gun built on a BAT action. I am a solid fan of the .223, but there is no contest with the faster speed of the .22 Nosler and the accuracy in my A/R's is great and the bolt gun fantastic. Even shooting a lighter bullet like a 52 grain target bullet at the much faster speeds will help a lot in conditions. Going with the heavier, high BC bullets adds to the attraction. In my opinion - it is a bit better than a .223 Ackley, plus no fireforming. Only downside is brass choices and price.

Like the .22 ARC, the .22 Nosler is lacking a diversity of brass choices - the only brass being from Nosler and "Dogtown" brass from MIDWAYUSA, which is also reportedly made by Nosler at a reduced price. The Nosler brass is priced quite high, especially compared to most brands of .223, short of Lapua. on the plus side, I have found it to be very good brass in terms of life and accuracy. The .22 ARC, at present, is the same kind of deal brass-wise. When I ordered my reamer for my bolt gun, I felt certain other manufacturers would eventually make brass for the .22 Nosler - but none so far. I'd not bet that there will be many companies making the .22 ARC brass - though it may happen. If it doesn't, you should at least consider whether being able to get various brands of brass is really important to you. Seems there is a better mousetrap out every year these days. For 300 yard targets, choosing between the .223 and .22 ARC - I'd definitely go with the ARC. One doesn't need Lapua brass to be competitive, as nice as it is. I still have a few .22 Nosler barrels for my bolt gun to shoot out, but if I were doing that build now, I'd be doing the ARC for my purposes.

I use plentiful and cheap starline 6.5 grendle brass for my 22 arc

 

[KMW 1954]

a wildcat based on a Hornady case that you can't shoot in FTR? Let me think...

Love the 6 ARC, BTW, planning on one sometime soon.

Who said anything about shooting this in F Class? Not I. So how or why is that even a pertinent issue?

 

[KMW 1954]

In a bolt gun I’m surprised you went 6arc

Why because it is not something you would do? Same reason why I cannot understand the 30BR.

 

[Lefty2506]

For 300 yds, I'd go with a 223AI.

If you're wanting something faster than that, the ARC is an option, but so is the 22BR. Just depends on how much you want to spend on brass, how hard you want to look to find brass, and/or how willing you are to step 6.5G brass down to 22 cal. My 22 cal stuff is mostly used for shooting prairie dogs, so I would lean towards the ARC simply because I could make the brass from 6.5G Starline for a lot less $$ than I could buy 22BR brass. For 100 pcs, I wouldn't care much. For 500 pcs, I start to care about the cost.

 

[SKWERLZ]

Why because it is not something you would do? Same reason why I cannot understand the 30BR.

30 BR is easy
Super accurate and bigger diameter holes give a competitive edge in some BR competition.

 

[urbanrifleman]

My opinion? (Just my opinion and nothing else).

22 arc is such a weird choice in a bolt gun. First thing is that it requires an oddball bolt face that can't be used for pretty much anything else. It will not compete with a 22br in any category, I doubt it will do anything better than a 223 Ackley. If this is about brass then 223 is by far the best choice. Laupa 6br brass is by far the best reloading brass on the planet. Any pennies saved at the beginning on brass using a 22br will not matter after 20 reloads (which is typical for Lapua).

It was a cartridge specifically developed to run in an AR-15. Well... The guy who developed it made it for across the course, and then Hornady pretty much knocked it off, I suppose.

I have people call and inquire about the 22 arc about every 4 or 5 months. Pretty much every one that doesn't go somewhere else goes home with a 22br and is so very happy. Because that's what the 22br does, makes people happy. I would say the 223 makes even more people happy. Because it's just easy peasy and works.

 

[SKWERLZ]

My opinion? (Just my opinion and nothing else).

22 arc is such a weird choice in a bolt gun. First thing is that it requires an oddball bolt face that can't be used for pretty much anything else. It will not compete with a 22br in any category, I doubt it will do anything better than a 223 Ackley. If this is about brass then 223 is by far the best choice. Laupa 6br brass is by far the best reloading brass on the planet. Any pennies saved at the beginning on brass using a 22br will not matter after 20 reloads (which is typical for Lapua).

It was a cartridge specifically developed to run in an AR-15. Well... The guy who developed it made it for across the course, and then Hornady pretty much knocked it off, I suppose.

I have people call and inquire about the 22 arc about every 4 or 5 months. Pretty much every one that doesn't go somewhere else goes home with a 22br and is so very happy. Because that's what the 22br does, makes people happy. I would say the 223 makes even more people happy. Because it's just easy peasy and works.

I was in that decision making process for a small 6mm
6ARC or a 6BR or derivative for a bolt gun
6BRA won.


In a gasser obviously things are different as well as a howa mini.

 

[KMW 1954]

My opinion? (Just my opinion and nothing else).

22 arc is such a weird choice in a bolt gun. First thing is that it requires an oddball bolt face that can't be used for pretty much anything else. It will not compete with a 22br in any category, I doubt it will do anything better than a 223 Ackley.

Oddball? Why because it is not based on the 308? Same bolt face for the Russian, PPC, ARC, Grendel and a number of other wildcats. Besides I already have two Savage Bolt heads, one in use and another sitting on the bench so again I don't see where that is an issue.

was a cartridge specifically developed to run in an AR-15. Well... The guy who developed it made it for across the course, and then Hornady pretty much knocked it off, I suppose.

Once again there are many cartridges that are being used today that were developed for something other than what they were designed for. So again what's the point? Amazes me that I keep hearing that argument whenever the ARC is mentioned. So exactly what was the 22 rim rife designed for? Pistol, bolt rifle, lever rifle, semiauto? Then what was it exactly the the venerable 223 was designed for? I see it has also more than exceeded it's intended purpose.

 

[searcher]

My opinion? (Just my opinion and nothing else).

22 arc is such a weird choice in a bolt gun. First thing is that it requires an oddball bolt face that can't be used for pretty much anything else. It will not compete with a 22br in any category, I doubt it will do anything better than a 223 Ackley. If this is about brass then 223 is by far the best choice. Laupa 6br brass is by far the best reloading brass on the planet. Any pennies saved at the beginning on brass using a 22br will not matter after 20 reloads (which is typical for Lapua).

It was a cartridge specifically developed to run in an AR-15. Well... The guy who developed it made it for across the course, and then Hornady pretty much knocked it off, I suppose.

I have people call and inquire about the 22 arc about every 4 or 5 months. Pretty much every one that doesn't go somewhere else goes home with a 22br and is so very happy. Because that's what the 22br does, makes people happy. I would say the 223 makes even more people happy. Because it's just easy peasy and works.

Depends a lot on what folks are using it for. For strictly target work and low-volume varmints, I agree with the 22 BR. Long strings of fire in a hot varmint field leave the .22 BR lacking when it comes to heating up those barrels. I guess guys just have to decide on what they really intend to use it for, and, keeping it in a .22 caliber creates a lot of choices by itself. And if one pre-loads ammo for varmints as I do, buying 1,000 pieces of BR brass to keep me going in a good day or two of shooting would kind of bum me out. Worse, because that brass lasts so long in a bolt gun, the barrel would be worn out 1/4 of the way through the life of the brass and, given a choice, I'd rather not put that brass into a new barrel. That .22 BR would be perfect for 300 yard targets though!

 

[urbanrifleman]

Depends a lot on what folks are using it for. For strictly target work and low-volume varmints, I agree with the 22 BR. Long strings of fire in a hot varmint field leave the .22 BR lacking when it comes to heating up those barrels. I guess guys just have to decide on what they really intend to use it for, and, keeping it in a .22 caliber creates a lot of choices by itself. And if one pre-loads ammo for varmints as I do, buying 1,000 pieces of BR brass to keep me going in a good day or two of shooting would kind of bum me out. Worse, because that brass lasts so long in a bolt gun, the barrel would be worn out 1/4 of the way through the life of the brass and, given a choice, I'd rather not put that brass into a new barrel. That .22 BR would be perfect for 300 yard targets though!

22br heating up barrels? Hmmm... I had not experienced that. We use less than 30 grains of powder across the board. I don't really see that as being "hot".

My 243 shot 46 grains of powder. That got hot. Still didn't care. Hahaha

 

[William Vogel]

I use 6.5 Grendel brass. You should use a 26 inch barrel.