Started using Boretech Eliminator and.......
- Thread starter DngBat7
- Start date
Dusty Stevens
Shiner
Pro shot or butchs for me
Chubbles
Born Tired; Live to Rest
The only way to have 100% confidence in your cleaning routine is by taking a good look with a bore scope after you think you have achieved an acceptable cleaning. If you can afford a Hawkeye, it will be a lifetime investment and a tool you won’t know how you lived without. Hawkeye gives a 0° & 90° view and is a true fiber optic scope. The Lyman scope is useful and more affordable however, it is digital, 90° view only, and the resolution is not ideal.
The real premature killer of barrels is not copper, but carbon. The kill zone is from the freebore to bullet Pmax, and 3 to 4 inches foreword. This is where the inert carbon is “baked” into the grooves from the high concentrated pressure in those first few inches of barrel. The remainder of barrel length will shine up easily and should be carbon and copper free.
Lastly, although I am a BoreTech fan, I haven’t endorsed any one product: a bore scope will teach you how to clean. I do encourage using Kroil as a neutralizer and generous application in the bore and chamber during storage. Please let me know your thoughts. Cheers.
The real premature killer of barrels is not copper, but carbon. The kill zone is from the freebore to bullet Pmax, and 3 to 4 inches foreword. This is where the inert carbon is “baked” into the grooves from the high concentrated pressure in those first few inches of barrel. The remainder of barrel length will shine up easily and should be carbon and copper free.
Lastly, although I am a BoreTech fan, I haven’t endorsed any one product: a bore scope will teach you how to clean. I do encourage using Kroil as a neutralizer and generous application in the bore and chamber during storage. Please let me know your thoughts. Cheers.
I have a Lyman Borecam for sale and it has helped me no end. I thought i was doing a good job in cleaning but once i got the borecam i soon realised i was wrong. I have updated to a hawkeye. I think everyone who is a serious shooter whether hunter or benchrest shooter should have one.
dmoran
Donovan Moran
Interesting topic and replies ..... But have to say, and not meaning to piss anyone off:: but anyone who is not using a bore-scope does not know what is truly going on when cleaning a barrel, or what the different "cleaners" are effectively lifting and/or not lifting.
What a bore-scope does very effectively for cleaning, is tells the truth of what layers of fouling cleaners are and aren't effective at lifting, and what process' and procedures are the most effective. They show what portions of the barrel need more attention/cleaning and what portions do not, greatly improving the time spent in a barrel, and the efficiency of an entire cleaning process.
As to cost of a bore scope, I'm of the opinion the only thing expensive about a bore-scope is not having one. In gained barrel life and subsequent accuracy, they can pay for themselves in 1 barrel.
My 2-Cents
What a bore-scope does very effectively for cleaning, is tells the truth of what layers of fouling cleaners are and aren't effective at lifting, and what process' and procedures are the most effective. They show what portions of the barrel need more attention/cleaning and what portions do not, greatly improving the time spent in a barrel, and the efficiency of an entire cleaning process.
As to cost of a bore scope, I'm of the opinion the only thing expensive about a bore-scope is not having one. In gained barrel life and subsequent accuracy, they can pay for themselves in 1 barrel.
My 2-Cents
Amen
Chubbles
Born Tired; Live to Rest
I will gladly second that Amen,”AMEN.” Well said my friend!
Tim Singleton
Gold $$ Contributor
You can hold a patch between finger after shooting all day squirt some that stuff on the patch it’ll turn blue
Ya can't tell without a borescope!!
...driving tacks through bug holes all day if you do your part...
I doubt that left a week any of the cleaners would be good for a barrel. I use Bore Tech Eliminator but it is only left in the barrel for a minute or two. Then followed with Kroil followed with oil.
jelenko
Gold $$ Contributor
Sorry for digging up an old thread but, I'm using BT Eliminator and am wondering if there's any updates on whether it will/does corrode barrels.
I've been using BT Eliminator for several years now over ~ 10 barrels. I don't wipe off the muzzle when done cleaning and typically leave BT C4 or BT Eliminator in the barrel for extended times [hours] and overnight.
I have not seen rust on the muzzles => does it rust some and not others? Is chromoly more susceptible than stainless? Is there something else going on?
BoreTech does recommend leaving some in the barrel as a short term rust preventative.
Thanks.
I've been using BT Eliminator for several years now over ~ 10 barrels. I don't wipe off the muzzle when done cleaning and typically leave BT C4 or BT Eliminator in the barrel for extended times [hours] and overnight.
I have not seen rust on the muzzles => does it rust some and not others? Is chromoly more susceptible than stainless? Is there something else going on?
BoreTech does recommend leaving some in the barrel as a short term rust preventative.
Thanks.
Call Bore Tech - their technical staff is terrific. They will give you info on extensive tests that they conducted then you can make your own decision.
Cleaning rifles is one of the most controversial subjects I've ever seen. Just watch the video's on the net and you'll see what I mean.
I switched to Bore Tech products about 2 or so years ago. I use the two part system, i.e. C4 then CU+2. Prior to that, I used Shooter's Choice for about 30 years and was completely satisfied with it. The only reason I switched was wifey developed a sensitive to the odor. Bore Tech products are odor free.
After 2 or so years of using Bore Tech two part system, I can say that it does a terrific job of removing carbon and copper.
Here's the rub - I began developing clean barrel flyers in my custom barrel rifles. Plus, it would take some barrel seasoning, i.e. about 5 shots before the barrel would shoot to its full capability. This puzzled me to no end. Thus I began a research project. I wondered if I was doing too "good" of job of removing copper. The reason why I wondered was Shooter's Choice does a fair job at best of removing copper and for 30 years of use I never had an issue with clean barrel flyers or having to "re-season" the barrel with copper to obtain consistent precision.
After watching gunblue490, tiborauaurus Rex, Panhandle precision, and 8541 tactical video's I decided to test their premise of "copper equilibrium" and "minimal disturbance cleaning" relative to maintaining precision. I know this is rifle cleaning heresy with the gun cleaning culture because all the "experts" and bore scope guys swear that you have to remove all the copper. Maybe their right, I don't know but I wanted to test a different approach.
Why my testing at this point is still under way, the initial results indicate there may be some basis to the aforementioned claims regarding minimum disturbance cleaning since I've eliminated clean barrel flyers and reestablished consistent precision without have to fire "fouling shots."
So far I've tested two methods, both designed to remove carbon fouling. I've cleaned after every 40 to 50 rounds. Procedure A: bore tech C2 only which does an outstanding job removing carbon and some copper much like Shooters Choice. Procedure B: Hoppe's 9 which does a good job of removing carbon fouling.
Both procedures have produced my desire results - i.e. elimination of clean barrel flyers and consistent precision without having to "season" the barrel. However the testing is not complete yet - I need more data to draw any absolute conclusions.
Bottom line: don't be afraid to try something new if you are not getting the performance results you want. Test for yourself and make your own decision. I'm only interested in performance results, not how the bore looks. If performance goes sideways then a bore inspection probably has value. But I wouldn't base anything on just looking down the bore - I would use performance results as the basis.
I tried that approach but it didn't work for me. Possible reason is that it's the lack of copper "seasoning" that's creating the clean barrel issues in this rifle, not the lack of "seasoning" for carbon.
I was at the range today with my test rifle, a Rem 7 with a Douglas Match Barrel, shooting from a clean barrel that was only cleaned with Hoppe's 9 and a bronze brush. I experienced no clean bore flyer, and the next 4 shots were consistent with what I've been experiencing with a fouled barrel; in other words, it's right on point. The only conclusion I can think of is that this rifle requires some level of copper to shoot consistently. This was the fourth clean barrel test and the results have all been the same with this rifle. This is what tiborususaus rex (a long range precision specialists) calls "copper equilibrium".
I've gotten similar results with using only Bore Tech C4, carbon remover, and a bronze brush on another test rifle, a Rem 700 with a heavy Douglas Match Barrel. Actually the results have been even better with this rifle, i.e. I'm getting consistent 3/8 to 5/8" five shot groups with the first 5 shots. I'm not a good bench shooter so some of this variation may be due to shooter error but the result meet my needs.
I'm not making any pronouncements on cleaning, only reporting what I've observed thus far. I'm not an expert or winner of national matches, I'm only a varmint and predator hunter trying to solve a performance problem with my equipment.
The reason I/m obsessing over this issue is that I never had this problem before and having to fire fouling shots before going varmint hunting is a pain in the butt not to mention the need to conserve supplies in this current state of shortages. I may have found the solution because if I had gone hogging today the first shot (clean barrel) would have taken the hog easily.
PS: My injured knee is about 90% so I hope to get out next week for a ghog Safari.
I usually do a full clean after a match, carbon and copper. First shot next match is always out of the group, low and left by ~ 1 moa. Does take at least 3-4 shots to settle but I got used to it and adjusted.
Then I found using 2-3 dabs of Lock-Ease on a dry patch in a dry barrel just prior to shooting has helped.
Now going to limit my cleaning to carbon only and see how that goes, and with/without Lock Ease, leaving copper removal for every 200 rounds or so. This is for FTR.
Then I found using 2-3 dabs of Lock-Ease on a dry patch in a dry barrel just prior to shooting has helped.
Now going to limit my cleaning to carbon only and see how that goes, and with/without Lock Ease, leaving copper removal for every 200 rounds or so. This is for FTR.
Upgrades & Donations
This Forum's expenses are primarily paid by member contributions. You can upgrade your Forum membership in seconds. Gold and Silver members get unlimited FREE classifieds for one year. Gold members can upload custom avatars.
Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.
You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.
To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.
Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.
You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.
To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.