SS media frustration

[nmiller]

I just started tumbling with SS media and I just realized that my cases are coming out really clean but there apparently is no free lunch here. I used to ultrasonically clean my brass but I got tired of the "dry brass" issue so I decided to switch to ss media. I noticed tonight that my cases are getting the mouths peened flat. I don't use a VLD chamfer tool and I don't overdo the chamfering. I checked between cases that have gone 3 hours and those that went overnight and they're the same. I'm not sure if this is just the nature of the beast with ss or the jagged ends of my pins doing it. I have considered tumbling my pins only with river rocks and water to dull the ends but have yet to try it. Is my case quantity per run a critical factor? I'm using the prescribed amount of everything but I sort cases by weight and have yet to differentiate them so I have runs as small as 20 Dasher cases mixed with maybe the same number of tac 20 cases to make running the tumbler worthwhile. I hate deburring almost as much as I do neck turning. I feel like it doesn't need to be done again unless I trim my brass. It also seems like I could be losing more brass than the cases lengthen by each time I clean. Are there any solutions to this issue other than going back to ultrasonic and dry lubing my necks?

 

[jonbearman]

Cant you iron out the dents by resizing after the cleaning? If they are dinged then take a pair of needle nose pliers and make them round using light pressure and resize them then and that should take care of the problem.

 

[nmiller]

Jon, it's not dents, more like repeatedly dropping a case on a hard steel plate squarely on the mouth, dulling the edge back. It ends up squarish and possibly burred on the inner edge. Thanks for weighing in though.

Nate

 

[tchostler]

I have found the same thing with my cases. I decap, clean and then resize. When I run cases through the Dillon, the carbide die lessens the problem. But when I load cases for certain rifles, one at a time, I still debur the necks. Haven't noticed this effecting accuracy, but I'm not shooting a BR rifle. Still will use the SS media, but probably will not clean every firing.

tc

 

[Scott Harris]

Your problem is well documented: peening of the case mouths from SS tumbling. i reduced total tumbling time to 12 minutes and this greatly mitigated the problem. They come out 95% clean and that is a trade-off I could live with. Some folks have experimented with using no stainless media: you could try that. For my part, I went back to ultrasonic to completely eliminate peening.

 

[seanhagerty]

I use my thumlers Tumbler with brass rod media. I picked them up at a gun store in OKC (H&H Guns). They dont seem to peen the necks as much, if at all. I havent noticed it as an issue. (This could be an example of my inability to notice things.)

The brass media is about 10 bucks a pound if I remember correctly.

 

[hedditch]

I don't get it! I just checked the two hundred fifty 204 cases I just cleaned and I did not see any problems with any of the cases. The water was an inch from the top and I ran them for 1 1/2 hrs. I checked my 243 cases and 30-36 cases, no problems. What can be the difference between what I am doing and what you are doing? Wish I had an answer for you because I know it has to be perpexing. When ever I clean I make sure I have at least 200 cases in the drum. That is the only difference I can see. Looks like you had 40 cases. Worth checking into, maybe. Good luck finding the problem. Dave

 

[brian427cobra]

SS media works great, but I don't use it anymore on precision rifle brass, not because of the peening, but because I found that the carbon left inside the neck is a good thing, now I either vib tumble my brass or hand clean it with a Krazy Klothe, brush out not polish the inside of the necks, chrono numbers don't lie, I have long term repeatable single digit SD numbers, at 1000 or longer that matters big time.

 

[rcparker1]

I agree. The more pieces of brass i have and the more water i put in the less problems i have. Regaurdless of how much brass it always works better for me if i fill it up with water.

 

[nosualc]

Are there any solutions to this issue other than going back to ultrasonic and dry lubing my necks?

The alternative is simply not to mechanically clean your brass. Unless you're talking range pickup brass, they don't need it.

Wipe 'em down, knock the big chunks out of the primer pocket and run a nylon brush through the neck. Not only is this cheaper, easier and faster, but the results are better basis for accuracy. All that carbon on the inside of your case necks is YOUR FRIEND, cleaning it off is not only unnecessary, but detrimental.

Don't get me wrong, I've gone down the path of SS pins and ultrasonic cleaners. Both methods result in really clean beautiful cases. It appealed to the OCD part of me to have really really clean brass.

But, those really really clean cases also resulted in wickedly inconsistent neck tension (and with SS pins, peened necks). I chased my tail trying to remedy this with graphite powder, imperial wax, polishing, etc. etc. Never did get it solved, and the extra steps (drying, re-trimming, neck prep, etc.) are a complete PITA.

At the suggestion of a friend, I tried skipping the mechanical cleaning, and will never go back. My neck tension became more consistent, my vertical reduced, and my scores increased. Sometimes the simple solution is the right solution.

-nosualc

 

[davidd]

SS media works great, but I don't use it anymore on precision rifle brass, not because of the peening, but because I found that the carbon left inside the neck is a good thing, now I either vib tumble my brass or hand clean it with a Krazy Klothe, brush out not polish the inside of the necks, chrono numbers don't lie, I have long term repeatable single digit SD numbers, at 1000 or longer that matters big time.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This is what I do.
S/S is what I use on my pistol brass

 

[jlow]

The preening is a documented problem but it is not a consistent problem as people have stated.

It appears that some factors such as how much water and brass is in the tumbler may affects this. I suspect that with more water and brass, the overall movement of the brass is slowed down and this may be responsible for less preening. It’s like most methods, you can throw your hands up when there is a problem or you can find out how to get it to work properly.

 

[bigedp51]

I blamed the pins with sharp ends for the peening and posted it here, BUT at AR15.com the same problem is discussed and it is caused mainly by drum speed and the amount of water. When the drum is slowed down there is far less peening and it is caused by the cartridge cases hitting each other and not the pins.

I did not think this was possible until someone pointed out the dents, dings and scratches were bigger than the pins in the photos I posted.

Drum speed, time tumbled, the amount of brass in the tumbler and the amount of water control how hard the cases will hit each other and ding the case mouth and body of the case. If you notice they make low speed model and the people with this motor are not having the peening problem.

http://www.buffaloarms.com/Detail.aspx?PROD=164287

 

[Erik Cortina]

I clean my brass every time with SS media, but I only do it for 20 minutes. Clean enough and no problems what so ever.

 

[amlevin]

I agree. The more pieces of brass i have and the more water i put in the less problems i have. Regaurdless of how much brass it always works better for me if i fill it up with water.

This is the key right here.

For me it's always a full tumbler and only enough time to get the job done. When I clean using the SS Media I deprime first with a universal depriming die. Then I process only the clean cases. Sizing and expanding cleans up any neck dimension issues and a quick trip across the trimmer squares up the case mouth.

 

[Bradley Walker]

Thumbler said the regular speed motor is $50...

 

[nmiller]

I think I'll work toward tumbling more cases at one time and finding the minimum time to achieve clean brass. Thanks for the ideas guys.

 

[amlevin]

FWIW, I just opened two bags of brand new Winchester brass. Apparently they tumble it in something similar to SS Pin media. Case mouth's were peened rather severely. A quick squeeze in a Lee Collet Die and a "trim", instant "perfect case mouth.

 

[infantrytrophy]

I don't think that the SS media is the culprit. The same thing happens with a brief tumble (vibratory tumbler) in walnut or corncob media. Work around this by simply changing the sequence of your brass prep operations.

During the course of prepping new Hornady 6HAGAR brass, I sized the brass to "iron out" any dents in the case necks, then trimmed in a Giraud trimmer. The Giraud trimmer simultaneously trims to length, chamfers the inside of the case mouth and de-burs the outside of the case mouth. This leaves the case mouths "perfect" for loading, but apparently a bit fragile for tumbling (in any media, SS pins or walnut/corncob). I then placed the cases in a vibratory tumbler with very fine walnut media for 30 minutes simply to remove the sizing lube. After this brief tumble, the case mouths were "dinged" slightly - not as perfect as they were just out of the Giraud trimmer. A quick pass back through the trimmer cleaned up the case mouths again.

To prevent this problem, I now size, then vibrate briefly to clean off the sizing lube, then trim (plus chamfer/debur) as the last step. This prevents the problem, and prevents the extra step.

Randy

 

[amlevin]

A quick pass back through the trimmer cleaned up the case mouths again.

To prevent this problem, I now size, then vibrate briefly to clean off the sizing lube, then trim (plus chamfer/debur) as the last step. This prevents the problem, and prevents the extra step.

Randy

^^^^^^^^^^This!