Spotting Scope Upgrade

[Lesloan]

I'm thinking about upgrading my spotting scope. My problem is that there's no way I can try the one I'm considering before buying, so really have no way to tell whether the change would make a real difference. The scope I have is a Konus 20-60x80 Konuspot, and it's really a decent spotter. But as I age my eyesight is getting worse and I sometimes have trouble seeing .22 holes in the black, even at 100 yds. (I really hate it when a hit I thought was a 10 turns out to be a 9.) Another scope I've seen and used is the Celestron Ultima 20-60x80, which is optically comparable to my Konus.

The Scope I'm considering is the Celestron Regal 20-60x80 M2ED. I'm looking for input on this scope from somebody who's used both the Regal and either of the above two. The Regal is a lot more expensive, and I'd really like to have a good idea of what to expect before I lay down my money. Is the Regal worth the outlay or not?

I know there are better scopes out there, Kowa, Leica, Swarovski and so on, but I want to stay with an 80mm objective and can't afford the real top-dollar scopes.

So what do you think? Should I place my order or stay with what I already have? Thanks...

 

[watercam]

I looked through two of the 80mm Regals equipped with the 27X LER eye-pieces at a Long Range Regional a few weeks ago. They looked very good - as good as the Kowa 80s in any event. Creedmoor Sports is selling them for $650 with the LER eye-piece.

 

[Lesloan]

Thanks, watercam, I really appreciate the input. Saying it compares to the Kowa 80's is very high praise.

 

[stool]

check amazon for pricing.....

 

[brian427cobra]

Save your pennies and get a Vortex Razor, due to a injury I spent a couple years ROing Precision Rifle Matches, my Celestron Uptima 80 worked, but I was able to barrow many different spotters including a 5k Ziess Spotter 60(the very best there is IMHO) and everything else in between including Swaro Pentax Luepold Bushnell Nikon Ziess and many more, the Razors were all very consistent and very good, so that's what I bought. As for seeing 22 holes, atmospheric conditions will play a big role in seeing holes at distance.

 

[Scott Harris]

I'd suggest you consider a 65mm objective scope: less expensive, but no less capable for for full daylight spotting. You could get a Kowa TSN-661 w/ LER eyepiece for about $730. Also, I'd consider used a fixed 30Wide or 25 LER eyepiece. Fixed eyepieces are often brighter, clearer, with a wider field of view. People some times think they need more magnification when what they really need is better clarity.

I've got two Swarovski spotters and two Kowas: the Kowas are fantastic and a great value.

http://www.amazon.com/Kowa-TSN-661-Standard-Optics-Spotting/dp/B000J44GHU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1396398009&sr=8-1&keywords=kowa+661

 

[Lesloan]

I'd suggest you consider a 65mm objective scope: less expensive, but no less capable for for full daylight spotting. You could get a Kowa TSN-661 w/ LER eyepiece for about $730. Also, I'd consider used a fixed 30Wide or 25 LER eyepiece. Fixed eyepieces are often brighter, clearer, with a wider field of view. People some times think they need more magnification when what they really need is better clarity.

I've got two Swarovski spotters and two Kowas: the Kowas are fantastic and a great value.

http://www.amazon.com/Kowa-TSN-661-Standard-Optics-Spotting/dp/B000J44GHU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1396398009&sr=8-1&keywords=kowa+661

Thanks for the suggestion. I'll give it serious consideration--I used one of the big 82mm Kowas with the 27x LER eyepiece some years back spotting for a friend in high power silhouettes. It was the most amazing spotter I've ever used, and the LER eyepiece made it brilliant. The only spotter I've ever used that really let me see the full field of view with glasses on. I'd previously rejected the Kowa based on price, and didn't realize the 66mm/25x LER combination was price competitive for the Celestron Regal.

I started looking at the 66mm Kowa after getting the same suggestion from a forum member via PM. The only reservation I have is, can I see .22 cal holes in the black at 100 yds on an overcast day? If so, then this may well be my scope of choice. What do you think--will it do that?

 

[stool]

things to consider.
the color of the target.
ibs uses lite blue and white...with a cheap celestron 100mm 22-67x i had no issues seeing 6mm holes at 1000yds..no mirage.
same scope at 200 yds most of the time cannot see 30 cal holes at 200yds.
second...optical facts..if you want to see 'x' dia hole, at "y' distance, you need "z" dia objective lense.

same quality lense, the bigger lense wins..
i have the 100 ed regal...but honestly have not had a chance to use it yet....
i sold the celectron ultima for 175, bought the regal when on sale with a discount for less than 500....so the bump up for me was only 325...not bad

 

[Lesloan]

things to consider.
the color of the target.
ibs uses lite blue and white...with a cheap celestron 100mm 22-67x i had no issues seeing 6mm holes at 1000yds..no mirage.
same scope at 200 yds most of the time cannot see 30 cal holes at 200yds.
second...optical facts..if you want to see 'x' dia hole, at "y' distance, you need "z" dia objective lense.

same quality lense, the bigger lense wins..
i have the 100 ed regal...but honestly have not had a chance to use it yet....
i sold the celectron ultima for 175, bought the regal when on sale with a discount for less than 500....so the bump up for me was only 325...not bad

I hope you'll post an update 0n the 100 ED Regal after you've had a chance to use it. (You got an incredible bargain, BTW. Amazon.com wants something like $780 for the 100mm M2 Regal!) I'm still kind of undecided whether to go with the Regal or the 66mm/25 LER Kowa. I really like the long eye relief and superb optics of the Kowa, but I'm not sure 25x will be enough for all my needs, present and future. I'm wavering between the 2 scopes, haven't really considered a 100mm scope but am open to the idea. Thanks for the input--lookin' forward to hearing more from you!

 

[Lesloan]

Are you going to be using this to view the surface of mars? If not, you CLEARLY don't need anything near 100x : Look at the size of the objective vs ocular lenses. Gargantuan size objectives do nothing for you if your eyes can't use them.

I assume you mean 100mm, not 100x, right? the scopes we're talking about are nowhere near 100x. I do agree that 100mm is probably more than I need (in fact, the scopes I'm considering are 66 & 80mm), but other than physical size I know of no problem with having a 100mm objective. I'm not going to lug this thing around in the woods--it's for spotting targets. And I think that feedback on a 100mm Regal can give me a good idea of what to expect of an 80mm Regal. And who knows, maybe the 100 will turn out to be exactly what I want! ;D I do appreciate your input, though--thanks!

 

[CatShooter]

Are you going to be using this to view the surface of mars? If not, you CLEARLY don't need anything near 100x : Look at the size of the objective vs ocular lenses. Gargantuan size objectives do nothing for you if your eyes can't use them.

Pure nonsense... the size of the eyepiece can limit the field of view, but has no effect on the resolution.

We do not need field of view to look at targets, we need resolution.

 

[Lesloan]

We do not need field of view to look at targets, we need resolution.
[/quote]

An excellent point. Resolution and magnification are pretty much what it's all about, for a target shooter. Scope weight, physical size and field of view are pretty much irrelevant for us.

Oh, I almost forgot--light gathering capability matters, too.

 

[Lesloan]

C'mon, guys, I really didn't mean to start a battle. And I wasn't looking for a tutorial on optics, either. Just wanting to get information on a couple of spotting scopes, preferably based on actual experience. I'm by no means an expert on the subject, just hoping to get the best scope for my needs at a price I'm willing & able to pay. Please don't step all over my thread. Thanks.

 

[NateHaler]

OP, if your objective -- no pun intended -- is to spot tiny bullet holes in the black at distance -- then maybe you should try solving this problem at the target end, rather than with optics. It's extremely difficult to see bullet holes in black targets with even superb optics in good light. However, if you can revise the target color, or if you can utilize a target backer (think Shoot-n-C targets, with the color splash that results), then that will help the bullet holes stand out, in which case your current optics may do the job.

Unless you are obliged by rules to use the black target bull, I would switch it for something else. A pink aiming bull on a buff target would stand out well, and greatly simplify spotting your bullet holes. Orange, ditto. Light blue (as mentioned above), ditto.

Otherwise, perhaps you should consider a big binocular. Two eyes are better than one. Resolution of the target is the challenge, and a binocular will make this easier. The challenge, as with a spotting scope, is how to support it without image tremble.

Using just your own vision, how far back from your target can you see bullet holes in the black? Let's say it's 10y. Okay, at 100y, you'd need 10x, all other things being equal (which is probably not the case, but you get the idea). If it's 5y, then you'll need 20x.

Clarity of image is more important than magnification. I get better image resolution in my (Pentax 80mm) spotter with a fixed power eyepiece than a variable, at the same magnification.

 

[Lesloan]

I love shooting at Hoppe's orange & white 100-yd sighting target and shoot-n-see's. No trouble seeing bullet holes in these, even at 200-300 yds! Sadly, though, I'm constrained by the rules to shoot at black-on-white targets. Little ones. I well know that the key to putting the bullets where I want them is rifle, scope, ammo, rest and (dammit!) skill. But it helps to get some feedback thru the spotting scope, which is why I started this thread. On a nice, bright day .22 holes in the black at 100 yds. are fairly easy to see with my current spotter, a Konus, but as I get older I find my eyes getting dimmer and I'm looking for some help thru better optics, i.e, a better spotting scope. I'm already pretty well decided to buy one, I'm just trying to get the biggest bang for the buck.

And sorry, but your rule of thumb doesn't help much. Other things matter too, such as mirage (usually not a big problem at 100 yds., but I do occasionally shoot 200 & 300 yds. too) and resolution.

 

[stool]

go do a search for us longrange..they had a thread on these scopes...i do beleive some of them did chose the smaller regal's...
i am not a hp shooter so no issue with weight nor size.

and yes QUALITY of glass and COATINGS do count.

 

[dkhunt14]

I have a set of Kowa Highlanders. These are big eye binoculars. The resolution on the Kowas is better then the Swarovski and other big eyes that I looked at. When conditions get bad you can see in through the brush with better detail then any other glass I looked through. We long range hunt and I looked through a lot of glass and the Kowa blows the competition out of the water. Look up a article abput the marine snipers and their spotting scopes. They used to use to use a Team Unertyl spotting scope which was a 100mm special scope built by Unertyl. The Marine shooting team said the Kowa Highlander is better. Matt

 

[NateHaler]

Are you competing in rimfire benchrest or centerfire benchrest?

 

[Syncrowave]

Anybody ever use the Celestron C5 spotter? Can't beat the size of the objective lens ... 5 inches diameter.


And street price looks to be under $500.

 

[CatShooter]

Anybody ever use the Celestron C5 spotter? Can't beat the size of the objective lens ... 5 inches diameter.


And street price looks to be under $500.

Can't beat the mirage either