Spotting scope to see 6mm holes in the BLACK AT 300YDs

[dobber]

Hi folks,
I want to know if anyone can recommend a spotting scope which will resolve 6mm bullet holes in the black at 300yds. I have 2 nightforce rifle scopes: 12-42NXS and 8-32BR also Leupold 8-25X
Traget dot. I can see bullet holes in white or buff backgrounds but not in the black bull. Of course mirage makes all of this worse. I am looking at a Swarovski 80mm 20x60 HD or a Nikon Field scope 25-75X ED. Of course you cannot find a place where you can try before you buy so I wondered if in the minions of 6mm users somebody might actually have eyeball behind the device exprience not just what you have heard or what companies claim.
thanks Dobber

 

[Steve Blair]

I have the Nikon Fieldscope 82mm ED 25-75 and can (mirage allowing) resolve 6mm holes at 300 in the black. My eyes are the limiting factor as my 19-year-old daughter can see things through it that I cannot.

Either of the scopes you are considering should perform well.

 

[RonAKA]

6mm holes in the black at 300. Thats a tall order! This link may be of some use in generating some possible options. One of the ratings they did was on image quality.

http://www.livingbird.org/netcommunity/bbimages/lb/pdf/ScopeChart2008.pdf

 

[spclark]

I think it depends so much on contrast you're asking for a lot here, unless you can find a way to backlight your targets.

There's a range I used to shoot at 200 yards with no pits. They worked out a way to staple white plastic garbage bags on the frames so that the plastic was 4" behind the (thin) cardboard target backers. This range has targets to the south so the sun - if it's not cloudy - lights up that plastic & lets you see holes in the black pretty darn easy from the line.

Even if it's not heavy overcast the plastic still shows the bullet holes pretty well. Trying to see what's a blacker black (bullet holes) against a slightly lighter black (aiming black) at any kind of distance is gonna be tricky due to the air in between.

 

[Steve Blair]

Our 300 yard targets are against a sandy bank and we shoot northward, so the sun almost always illuminates the bank and targets. When there is reasonable light, the holes are fairly visible. If the targets did not have a contrasting background, the holes would be difficult to see.

 

[MOTORSPORTS55]

If you are intersted in a Kowa scope i can get you a great price on a new one !! let me no i am a kowa dealer .

thanks shawn

 

[bozo699]

Dobber,
I have a 12-40x60 gold ring leupold, @ 300 if the light is just right I can see .22-whatever dia. holes. My son's 16 year old eyes see's them easly. I have quite a few friends that horn hunt on my property They have top quality glass. I also have a rimrock (Bolder) 863 yards from my shooting bench with a orange dot on it I shoot regulary, with my gold ring I can see the impacts left from the bullets, with my friends swarovski hd WOW!! very defined! with my other friends Kowa not sure of model # but 77mm I think DOUBLE WOW!!!! You can see in fine detail just like if you were two feet in front of the target on a bright day ;D my next two glass purchases (not sure in what order) will be a pair of swarovski feild glasses and a Kowa spotting scope!! Weight is a issue for my friend but not for me I think I will get the 88mm. Oh by the way I have a cheap leupold wind river spotting scope around $300 I think you are lucky to see bullet hole in the white @ 300 yds. I hope this helps some.
Wayne.

 

[bozo699]

I have a 5-25x56 S&B PMII rifle scope that you can see 6mm bullet holes in the black @ 300 yds. I have been using leupy's and nightforce and still do But one of my friends has a S&B I looked through it one day and it was one of those
Double Wows!!! I just had to have one.
Wayne.

 

[Forum Boss]

Are you Feeling lucky? Conditions Will dictate whether you can or cannot.

There are NO guarantees. You could spend $3500.00 on a Zeiss or Swaro and be disappointed, or you could spend $800 on a used Pentax and be happy.

With a $400 6-20x40 Weaver Grand Slam, I have seen 6mm bullet holes in the black at 300 yards, on a perfect day, with sun position "just right" (mostly shining on target but a bit to the side to pick up the edge of the hole better). Air clear, after rain and big winds earlier in week.

In the SAME location, three weeks later, I could NOT see the same 6mm bullet holes in the black, using a superb Swarovski 80mm spotting scope on 65 power with HD glass. I was amazed. The 300 yards to the target was a mess of humidity and mirage, with blown dust. We could barely see .308 holes in the white! I kid you not.

The only thing that I guarantee to show you 6mm bullet holes in the black ALL the TIME is a good target camera system. That's what we are using now for 300m shooting. You set the camera about 5' away from the target, slightly off to the side. A good monitor will offer brightness and contrast control. For viewing shots in the black, increasing the brightness and fiddling with the contrast works wonders. The whole system costs about $1500.00 (this is NOT the TargetTek which doesn't work).

 

[gunnermhr]

The Swarovski is a better spotter than the Nikon. After I talked with the dealer I bought the Nikon with the option to return it if i wasn't satisfied. I posted a used target 500 yards and compared the Nikon with a friends Swarovski, although the Nikon was a real nice scope I returned to the dealer the next morning and returned the Nikon and bought a Swarovski HD. There is a definitive difference between the two. Kowa, Zeiss and Leica are all compareable to Swarovski. If money isn't an issue go with any of the last 4 and you will not regret it. To see bullet holes in the black at 300 all the time is a tall order to fill.

 

[Steve Blair]

The Swarovski is a better spotter than the Nikon. After I talked with the dealer I bought the Nikon with the option to return it if i wasn't satisfied. I posted a used target 500 yards and compared the Nikon with a friends Swarovski, although the Nikon was a real nice scope I returned to the dealer the next morning and returned the Nikon and bought a Swarovski HD. There is a definitive difference between the two. Kowa, Zeiss and Leica are all compareable to Swarovski. If money isn't an issue go with any of the last 4 and you will not regret it. To see bullet holes in the black at 300 all the time is a tall order to fill.

I agree that the Swarovski, Zeiss, Kowa, Leica, et al. are superior to the Nikon. Their prices reflect it. The Nikon was $1240, shipped. I see that current price for the Swarovski HD is ~$2800. It is reasonable to expect that there would be a performance delta. If the cost is not a problem, any of the scopes gunner noted are quality units. The Nikon easily resolves spotters at 1000 yards and bullet holes at 300, most of the time. It met the criteria for which it was purchased. If the criteria are more demanding, a better unit may fill the need.

 

[dobber]

Hi folks,
Thanks for all your replies. Seems to be an interesting topic. Even the forum mgr replied. Still on the horns of parting with $. but this definitely helps
Dobber

 

[FBecigneul]

The glass is the answer.
You need a scope with ED glass as this gives you the contrast that is needed. The Nikon 25-75X 82 will definitely get the job done.

 

[bozo699]

FBecigneul,
What is ED glass?
Wayne.

 

[Steve Blair]

Extra-Low Dispersion glass that minimizes chromatic aberration.

 

[bozo699]

Thanks Steave.
Wayne.

 

[Taildrag15X]

A target camera system is the ONLY sure fire way, but you don't need to spend $1500 on one that works.

If you want the info for a Transmitter/Receiver system for out to 1K PM me.