6MM bullet holes in the Black

[dobber]

Hi folks,
Some months ago I posted a question about spotting scopes capable of resolving 6mm bullet holes in a black bull or background. The 300yd F Class bull is what I tested. I compared a top Leica, Swarovski and Kowa with the help of Bear Basin Outfitters. They set the 75mm Leica and Swarovski and 88mm Kowa side by side. They could see no visible difference at the 300yds. I ended up purchasing the Kowa TN883, 88mm objective with Prominar HD lenses ,25-65X.This is an extremely brilliant piece of glass. The price tag however is commensurate with the high quality of resolution, $2600.The Leica is $4k and the Swaro is 3200. The kicker in all of this is MIRAGE. If it is present enough to blur the image then all bets are off.Anyhow if you are as crazy as I am and want a high quality scope to see your points of impact at distance then the Kowa will do it. I am not plugging one dealer over another but Bear Basin's price and service are a cut above the others I have personally experienced.
Respecfully Dobber

 

[fdshuster]

Dobber: I found the same thing to be true with my Nikon Fieldscope 111, 82mm. Throw in some mirage, and all bets are off as to whether or not you'll be able to spot 'em.

 

[Forum Boss]

A couple weeks ago we did initial test of NEW Ziess 85mm Diascope with 20-75X eyepiece. We also had a Swaro 80mm (60X), Pentax PF-100 ED (~75X). Al scopes worked great viewing test targets at 235m.

But with the mirage that day, we couldn't see bullet holes much past 300.

On better days I've seen 6mm bullet holes @ 600 with both the Pentax and Swaro, and even a NF 12-42 riflescope. On one amazing day, with the Pentax, at 6:00 am just as sun came up, I could see 7mm bullet holes (in the white) at 1000 yards.

The only thing that will reliably show you bullet holes at 600 yards (in all conditions) is a good target cam system. Check out the Bulletin for the system we use.

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2011/02/psw-wireless-target-viewing-video-system-field-tested/

 

[watercam]

I have had excellent luck with the Pentax 80ED. 6mm bullet holes at 300 yds. no problem (with the mirage caveat of course). Holes at 600 yds. in the white are doable as well. For matches I adapted a Kowa 25X LER eye piece to the Pentax with an off the shelf 1.25" telescope mount I modified. Works great - .22 rimfire bullet holes at 200 yds. very prominent in the black. Very impressed with Pentax resolution/color/contrast.

 

[flatlander]

I doubt anyone has more respect & desire for great quality glass than I do - there's just something special about a fine pair of binocs, a really clear riflescope or spotter.

I currently do more LR shooting at steel targets than anything else. From 600 to 1000yds., steel gives decent feedback. Only thing is, smaller & lighter bullets often don't make big or distinct enough splash marks - even at 600 - to be easily resolved. No problem with 175-180s out of a 284 or 308, but quite often it's hard to tell where you're hitting with any of the 22s and 6mms, and sometimes, even a 6.5 isn't a sure thing. Shooting steel with a brake or suppressor makes it pretty easy to see the actual impact, which makes shooting more fun & interesting.

However, I'd really like to have a good electronic video system - if I could come up with a sure-fire way of protecting the camera's lens from bullet splashback. 'Course, if I had a video system, I could go back to shooting paper from prone. What a great way of getting instantaneous feedback on your wind calls through the course of a 20rd. practice match.

 

[dreever]

I've thought about this, don't know if it's doable or not.
With the new water jet and laser systems of cutting AR 500 steel would it be possible to cut actual scoring rings on a steel target to a depth that you could see the score when the bullet splashes? I know you could hand paint them on, but they wouldn't last like actual indentations.

Just thinking.....

Danny

 

[flatlander]

Danny, if that could be done, it'd be fairly easy to put white or black paint down into the scoring ring groove to make them stand out. But then, when you use spray paint to cover bullet splashes, you'd have to be careful not to spray over the rings. There's a drawback to every system....

Aside from the initial investment & hassle of set-up & teardown everytime you shoot, the video system looks like the way to go to me. My 1000yd range is in our pasture, and since we rent the grass to a neighbor for his cow/calf operation, I can't leave anything set up over there. I've even had to fence my backstop out, or his calves wear it down to nothing playing on it.

 

[dreever]

Dennis,

I almost bought one of those systems that was advertised here for a good price, but luckily held off enough only to find that the guy selling them was less than honest. Some of you guys will remember that. Don't know if others ever got thier money back or not.

Cows are about nosy animals left my tool belt and some wiring etc. in the barn yard of a buddies while we took lunch. Half hour later those *%*&%$* cows had it and everything else strewn everywhere!


Danny

 

[dobber]

Hi folks,
Thanks for all the input. The video system advertised in Precision Shooting is certainly a good way to go. However, anyplace I shoot you cannot use them during a match to see your holes, they are not allowed for obvious reasons. So now you are left with good quality glass with your eyeballs. Without seeing
bullet hole impact in the black you are playing a blind man's game, particularly with wind and mirage.Thanks
Dobber

 

[dreever]

I e-mailed Ryan of "Big Dog Steel" Targets n regard to cutting scoring rings on steel targets and this was his reply.

I'm afraid scoring the targets deep enough for the score line to not wear off during use, would weaken them and potentially allow them to crack along the score

Nuf said.

I personally have some of Ryans water jet cut AR 500 steel targets and I must say they are super nice. If you are in the market check out some of his targets at www.bigdogsteel.com He does custom requests also. His prices and shipping are hard to beat.

Danny

 

[flatlander]

Sorry for getting OT here, but didn't think it was worth starting another thread for -

Danny, our club bought a couple of AR400 drops and had a local shop with a pattern torch cut a set of varmint silhouettes for us. The 200m mice & 300m crow tgts. are taking a beating, but the 385m ground squirrels & 500m jackrabbits are holding up real well. My own steel IPSC tgts. handle anything from 223 to 284 or 308 Win. w/o a problem, but I never shoot them any closer than 600yds.

It won't be too long before we're going to need to replace some of the close targets - wonder if AR500 would last longer at 200m?

 

[dreever]

Dennis,

Contact Ryan at BDS I'm sure he'll know the answer.

Danny

 

[dantiff2]

Not to Hijack this thread but I have some AR 500 steel plates, about (12x12) and was wondering how to "mount" them. What are y'all using to hang them? How are you attaching? ???

Dan