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Some thoughts for new PD shooters

On the other hand if I come here to shoot gophers and PD's the weather is generally nice, I get fed good steaks and some whiskey if I want it, I sleep in a warm bed and don't have to put up with leaky tents and surly cooks. Not only that I get to shoot all day if I want and as many rounds as I want. For me $250 a day is a bargain.

drover

Good point there. We tackled the problem from another angle, but we're fortunate to have cooperative rancher friends within a three hour drive from home. We usually go for 10 days to two weeks, stay in our own trailers on ranch property, hooked to water and power, all for no charge, as the landowner feels we're doing him a favor and not paying over $50/Acre for the cabbage poison.



We all do what works for each of us, but geography is what it's all about. I confess to moving to where I now live just shy of 50 years ago, primarily for the hunting/varmint shooting. No regrets.
 
Nice setup - having water and power is a real plus. You are right about it being all about the geography.

I am fortunate that I have access to a quite a few ranches for gopher shooting within 20 to 60 minutes of my place, I am spoiled. I usually get out a couple of times a week which is why I get in so much 22 LR shooting.

Another geographic thing I have going is that I have a daughter, and my wife has numerous relatives that live in central Montana - PD central. So every visit is a PD shoot for me.

There is a small group of us who do a similar setup as you for a PD camp in Wyoming each year. No water or power though - just lots of PD's.

 
I guess I found a place to PD shoot after all away from the masses. An old friend is a rancher is SW Nebraska and he has millions. He poisons them but there are still way too many. He has 10,000 ac of sandhills and I can camp in the middle and have some fun! An extra day drive but worth it. Plus he has great ribeyes!! Nebraska here I come!
 
I guess I found a place to PD shoot after all away from the masses. An old friend is a rancher is SW Nebraska and he has millions. He poisons them but there are still way too many. He has 10,000 ac of sandhills and I can camp in the middle and have some fun! An extra day drive but worth it. Plus he has great ribeyes!! Nebraska here I come!
That's great. Get out there and enjoy yourself and your wife. I love shooting with mine at the range. Maybe someday we'll make it pdogging together. Choot them pdogs. Also spend quality time with your friend. It definitely sounds like a good trip.
 
PD shooting is like most other things in life - it is easy to over complicate it.
Your list is excellent!

Probably due to differences in how/when you hunt vs me, but these are important for me.

1. I hunt by myself, so it is imperative that I see the bullet strike. You can't tell if you missed upwind or downwind, if you don't see the impact. So if your recoil takes you off the target, you will never know. Two ways I accomplish this. In an AR, I use the 3 lb weight in the buttstock cavity. On 223 bolt rifles, I just lean into them. The lighter the bullet the less recoil.
2. I hunt just after the pups come out. Using an AR, I can clean the entire clan off the mound by shooting the adult first. I don't shoot at running dogs, but I do select my order of execution before I begin. Using a bolt, I lose the sight picture during bolt manipulation, and have to reacquire the target. This reduces the time the targets are available.
3. I have switched to rimfire (17 HMR and Mach 2) for the last 3 years. Will not work for some, but for me it keeps the targets up with the reduced muzzle blast. Lower heat generation also increases my firing rate. When shooting centerfire, I shoot about 30 rounds per hour. With rimfire I shoot 60 rounds per hour.

I am not disputing anyone else's experience. But I have hunted tribal land in MT for the last 10 years, and never had any kind of an issue what so ever. But I comply with their regulations and buy the required permits.
 
It seems that each time there is a post from a new shooter that the suggestions are all over the place as far as calibers, scopes, and other equipment that may be needed.
PD shooting is like most other things in life - it is easy to over complicate it.
I have been shooting PD's and ground squirrels for decades and would like to share some equipment suggestions to the new PD shooter. I am fortunate in that I live in a target rich enviroment, by mid-summer I have usually shot 3000 - 4000 rounds at ground squirrels and PD's.

A lot of new shooters may only go one time because of the expense, time constraints, family obligations, etc. No matter how enjoyable it may be it is not inexpensive.
Before you lay out a lot of money on equipment consider the KISS method - "learn to walk before you try to run".
Don't spend a small fortune buying stuff that is not necessary, after the first trip then you will have a lot better idea of what does and doesn't work for you.

Firearms - an accurate bolt action, a bolt action helps you pace yourself when shooting. You will find that you will take time to make the shot rather than trying quick follow-up shots that often happens with semi-autos.

Cartridge - 223 Rem. with 40 or 50 gr bullets.
Why? Multiple reasons.
Most PD shooting takes place within 300 yards, after that the hit ratio drops quickly and most shooters would agree that hitting is more fun than missing. There is nothing wrong with trying some 400 - 600 yd shots but you will likely soon go back to the shorter ranges for the higher hit probability.
Another reason for the 223 is that if you aren't a handloader there is a good availability of off the shelf ammo at reasonable prices. If you are a handloader the 22 caliber gives a good selection of components from various manufacturers and often at better prices, with brass being reasonably priced and free if you use range pick ups.

Recoil - if you are lucky enough to get into a good PD field 300 or more shots per day are doable and shooting heavier bullets creates more recoil and it will begin to wear on you. Recoil is cumulative. Even a 223 shooting 50 gr bullets can start to wear on you by the end of the day - remember this is supposed to be fun, not an endurance contest where you begin to dread pulling the trigger.

Multiple Firearms - I have mixed emotions about suggesting multiple firearms because the cost another firearm and scope incurs.
If you do take two firearms I suggest that both firearms be for the same cartridge with the same load, by doing that you aren't as likely have to be jumbling drop and drift differences around in your though process. It is amazing at how quickly the drop and drift become intuitive when using the same cartridge and load over and over.
While it is nice to have a couple of firearms in case the shooting gets fast, you can get by with just one by laying a wet rag on the barrel to keep it cooled down.

Scope - Any good variable. There is no point in spending the money for a high magnification scope because of heat and barrel heat mirage it becomes difficult to use much above 15 power anyway. Just be sure that the glass is good enough that it doesn't tire your eye out and cause eyestrain.
A scope with a "fancy" reticle is not necessary - sight in at one-inch high at 100 yards and hold the crosshairs at the top of the head at 300 yards. Basically you can hold on fur from 100 to 300 yards.

Rangefinder - They are handy to have but not absolutely necessary, although they will help you to learn to judge distances better - it is surprising how many of those 400 - 500 yard guesstimates are actually inside of 300 yards.

Binocular - Again they don't have to be top-end, a good pair of 10X that don't give eyestrain will work just fine.

Shooting Table - Nice to have but unless you have a big field with lots of targets setting up and taking down a shooting table becomes a pain in the butt. I generally just use one of the sand filled canvas bags across the hood of my truck because it is faster and makes me more mobile.

Spotting PD's - When I am shooting and spotting with a friend we will try to find some prominent feature in the field, such as a rock, an oddly shaped bush, anything like that so it is easily identifiable and use that as the center of the clock when directing shots for each other. Doing this saves a lot of time trying to locate targets. and adds more fun since the spotter and shooter get to see the results.
Example - "from the rock there is a PD at 2 o'clock about 50 yards out".
Drover I like you already. If you have never been before you need to listen to what he is telling you.
 
Drover, your PD/GS shooting tips should be made into a Sticky!

Newbies could save money, time and grief if they heeded your tip list. After doing this seriously since 1968, I'd have to agree with all you listed with the exception of a rotating shooting bench, which to me, is the prime ingredient of the experience. But I admit to being a bit biased on that subject. ;)

Good job on that tip list.
 
Drover, your PD/GS shooting tips should be made into a Sticky!

Newbies could save money, time and grief if they heeded your tip list. After doing this seriously since 1968, I'd have to agree with all you listed with the exception of a rotating shooting bench, which to me, is the prime ingredient of the experience. But I admit to being a bit biased on that subject. ;)

Good job on that tip list.

Rick,
Thanks. I consider that a high compliment coming from someone with your years of experience.

drover
 
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If you have that many pdogs let me know and I'll sponsor the whole trip. Guns, ammo, food, whatever.
I am going to cll you City Boy because your name is too long for my lazy behind. Don't take offence I am from a suburb of Houston. Most of my Shooting friends are gone or on a fixed income and have limited income now. We have killed thousands in the Texas panhandle, not much difference in the OK panhandle terrain. Sell all the big boomers, unless you have rolling terrain you are not going to get a chance at a 1,000yd shot. When you do get get a long shot it is difficult to get an accurate range to figure elevation out. I buily a 6-284 and my longest thing to shoot was 494. I did hit it after 12 shots. I found a Barr & Stroud Range finder on E-bay from a military collector. He did not have the tripod adjusting tool or any thing. TRipod was easy used a Transit tripod Found an operators manual on the internet and made one of those. This thing was accurate to 20,000yds 11X. The easiest way to zero it was shoot a building or telephone pole with my Laser then Zero the Barr & Stroud to that. still temp sensitive. but not too bad. The thing was huge 3 ft wide heavy cast steel. It was very accurate. I tested is several times by walking to the dog and shooting the truck with my laser.
Hear is the deal I don't have anyone to shoot with anymore. I will take you to PD school and show you how to find and get permission to shoot on private land. I need a gunner for the right door while my barrel cools. If shooting from a vehicle is legal in the OK state. I am stuck in Canada until at least sometime next summer. I can probably show you how to get the dogs to come back up. First there has to be dogs in the Area. The Texas Panhandle dogs have been all but completely wiped out twice since I started doing this. We Cant shoot what ain't there. This would be a Dutch Deal. I sold the range finder to an English Varmint hunting guide in Africa. You are not going to believe this. They hunt Baboons. He said they don't get closer than 300yrds because the troop will attack you if you are close. he says they have to use a minim of a 2506 for him to take them. My guess is he gets paid by the government to kill them. Makes money going and coming. Sounds like Washington.
 
I have always wanted to shoot PD's and thinking about this spring. I live on the Oregon coast so closest would be Wyoming I guess. Can a guy just go over there and find an unmolested public land to have some fun? I dont mind camping, or rather prefer to. In Eastern Oregon it has turned into business to shoot ground squirrels and they want you to pay like $200 a day to shoot on the Alfalfa fields! Screw that.
You have thousands of ground squirrels in Oregan. Look up Advanced Action Videos. Smaller more challenging.
 
IMO, equipment is going to be in the eye of the beholder. The OP is an excellent resource for those starting. I would then say the key is a plan: where are you going, when are you going and who are you going with. Got rained out one day and rancher said do not drive in if it rains. There is a reason for that and you best respect their request or it will be the last time you will hunt their property. As we were driving around, we had a prairie dog run across the road in front of us. Found the town and got permission. Guessing the rancher gave everyone permission so dogs were a little spooky but was really windy and through persistence, we had decent shooting all day to the surprise of the owner. Gave him a couple boxes of 22lr as it was like gold at the time and have a place to go if we get back in the neighborhood. Point being, dogs and owners come and go. Be ready to go on to plan B or C and always respect anyone who gave you permission requests.
 
I am going to cll you City Boy because your name is too long for my lazy behind. Don't take offence I am from a suburb of Houston. Most of my Shooting friends are gone or on a fixed income and have limited income now. We have killed thousands in the Texas panhandle, not much difference in the OK panhandle terrain. Sell all the big boomers, unless you have rolling terrain you are not going to get a chance at a 1,000yd shot. When you do get get a long shot it is difficult to get an accurate range to figure elevation out. I buily a 6-284 and my longest thing to shoot was 494. I did hit it after 12 shots. I found a Barr & Stroud Range finder on E-bay from a military collector. He did not have the tripod adjusting tool or any thing. TRipod was easy used a Transit tripod Found an operators manual on the internet and made one of those. This thing was accurate to 20,000yds 11X. The easiest way to zero it was shoot a building or telephone pole with my Laser then Zero the Barr & Stroud to that. still temp sensitive. but not too bad. The thing was huge 3 ft wide heavy cast steel. It was very accurate. I tested is several times by walking to the dog and shooting the truck with my laser.
Hear is the deal I don't have anyone to shoot with anymore. I will take you to PD school and show you how to find and get permission to shoot on private land. I need a gunner for the right door while my barrel cools. If shooting from a vehicle is legal in the OK state. I am stuck in Canada until at least sometime next summer. I can probably show you how to get the dogs to come back up. First there has to be dogs in the Area. The Texas Panhandle dogs have been all but completely wiped out twice since I started doing this. We Cant shoot what ain't there. This would be a Dutch Deal. I sold the range finder to an English Varmint hunting guide in Africa. You are not going to believe this. They hunt Baboons. He said they don't get closer than 300yrds because the troop will attack you if you are close. he says they have to use a minim of a 2506 for him to take them. My guess is he gets paid by the government to kill them. Makes money going and coming. Sounds like Washington.

Tubb used to go shoot baboons all the time. He made lots of videos that are on YouTube.
 
Baboons wont attack you unless you corner them and there is no min caliber on hunting them, we hunt them all the time the reason you wont really get closer then 300y is because they are probably the smartest animal out there. One shot (if they don't see you) and their gone, if the troops been hunted before its going to take some long shots to get to them unless you catch them where they sleep or eat
 
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I've only been on a few PD trips, but I agree with Drover on all counts. Personally, I DO prefer a x-mass tree reticle because I find it easier to make consistent hold overs, but a standard reticle is fine, especially under 200 yds. 15-16x is about right for maximum magnification. You can use more on cloudy days, or before the ground warms up. In the heat of the day, the mirage makes any extra magnification useless. I'm also a fan of the 1 bolt action rifle concept. I took 4 on my first trip, and have only taken one on the subsequent trips. 1 very accurate 223 with a decent optic will keep you smiling all day long. Eventually you WILL add more rifles for shooting farther, 1 is still plenty of fun.

The only thing I would add that is shooting specific is a tripod and chair of some kind. I used a BOG pod (tripod) the first few trips and it did fine out to 400 yds when I was sitting in a cheap bag chair from walmart. The cheap bag chairs allow me to slouch down into a surprisingly stable shooting position, and get me up above most of the vegetation early in the season. From a standing position, 200 yds was pretty doable. I'm now using a camera tripod with an ARCA attachment. I do like it better, but there are a million of them out there and figuring out which ones are worth the extra $$ was not an easy task.
 
I'm also a fan of the 1 bolt action rifle concept. I took 4 on my first trip, and have only taken one on the subsequent trips. 1 very accurate 223 with a decent optic will keep you smiling all day long. Eventually you WILL add more rifles for shooting farther, 1 is still plenty of fun.
I would never ever consider taking only one gun on a PD trip.

There's so many thing that could go wrong with a gun or scope that could turn you into an instant tourist.

Murphy is alive and well, don't give him a chance.....
 
I would never ever consider taking only one gun on a PD trip.

There's so many thing that could go wrong with a gun or scope that could turn you into an instant tourist.

Murphy is alive and well, don't give him a chance.....
The biggest reason I only take 1 rifle is because it's a 16 hr drive from my place to Pierre SD, and I only have a certain amount of room in my car. The truck has plenty of room, but the cost of fuel to drive it there and back pushes the trip out of my budget. There's not a lot to go wrong with a good bolt action rifle, and I'm always out there with a buddy. If something does go south on my rig, I'm not an instant tourist, I'm an instant spotter/commentator which is still a pretty good time. For me the trip is normally a long weekend. If I were going to burn more than 1 or 2 vacation days on it, I'd likely figure out a way to fit a 2nd rifle into both the car and the budget. Long term plan is to have a custom bolt gun in something like a 22ARC for reaching further so I'll have to figure out a way to make more space at some point regardless.
 
Older thread but some helpful input for sure.
As mentioned above on power on scopes. I find myself down around 13-15x a lot. I have had guys tell me they run 20-25x all day long, either their scope is not truthful or they quit about noon.

How many guns, what caliber, I won’t go there really.
What is the softest, most accurate rig out to 3-400, with lots of good ammo you have?
Variety is the spice of life, like potato chips, you can’t have just one.
I shoot all things between .17 and 6mm, large and small, short and tall.

It is hard to beat a good .223 day in and day out. With that being said if one was serious about narrowing things down, identical twins would not be a bad choice.

I finally have access to a place I can get to 1000. Getting a good spotter or two and then getting a volunteer to stand there long enough may be a major chore.

Springs is coming they tell me. Y’all have fun this year.
 
Baboons wont attack you unless you corner them and there is no min caliber on hunting them, we hunt them all the time the reason you wont really get closer then 300y is because they are probably the smartest animal out there. One shot (if they don't see you) and their gone, if the troops been hunted before its going to take some long shots to get to them unless you catch them where they sleep or eat
I have never been to Africa and never will. (Too old, too broke) The PH that bought my Barr & Stroud gave me my information. I know he was in Africa because that is where I shipped the range finder to. The 25-06 may have been his rules. I know that they have some nasty looking fangs and can move. The range finder worked well once I learned to live by it's rules. The tube was cast Iron. So not light. At the time back in the 90's laser Range finders went from $150 for a cheap sometimes accurate to 5K for a better one not much in between. I saw the military one in a book that I think was Varmint Hunting Odessey. I don't remember. I found it on a website specializing in WWII stuff. Because the Texas Panhandle is Basickly flat ground is is the only thing that would work t the time.
 
I have never been to Africa and never will. (Too old, too broke) The PH that bought my Barr & Stroud gave me my information. I know he was in Africa because that is where I shipped the range finder to. The 25-06 may have been his rules. I know that they have some nasty looking fangs and can move. The range finder worked well once I learned to live by it's rules. The tube was cast Iron. So not light. At the time back in the 90's laser Range finders went from $150 for a cheap sometimes accurate to 5K for a better one not much in between. I saw the military one in a book that I think was Varmint Hunting Odessey. I don't remember. I found it on a website specializing in WWII stuff. Because the Texas Panhandle is Basickly flat ground is is the only thing that would work t the time.
One thing this PK did lead me to believe was that they got vicious if you wounded one. I sold the Range Finder in 2000 so that was a while back.
 

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