Some thoughts for new PD shooters

[Dave in WI]

1 Gun? are ye completely mad?? thats like having 1 potato chip...

One is none and two is one......

 

[RabbitSlayer]

This is a good start, but some of this is specific to where you hunt. I hunt public land where the PDs are educated and persistent drought results in low reproduction most years. After a couple weeks shots inside 300 are rare. They start around 300 to far as you can see.I start with the 204 and after the closer shots are gone. I spend lots of time carefully estimating range and wind before sending it from the 6 creed. No real need for 2 guns most years cuz there just are not enough shots. On a good year with lots of rain though its a whole other game. Smoke a hundred a day with a 17hmr and countless more with the big guns. I also rarely have problems with mirage and do mist shooting on 15 to 22ish. I read all this same stuff about the mirage before the first time I went. Its just not the case. At times I wish I had 32x or more. Its very low humidity where I go. Walking can also be more productive when its shot out. For this I use 17 hornet as seeing impact from less than ideal positions from a gun light enough for walking is really nice.

 

[JSH]

Moisture has nothing to do with mirage. Well, it can make it worse. Place I hunt private and public had less than 1.5 inches total of measurable precip in 30 months. By 11:00 on a clear day which is average, anything past 300 in a good scope was like looking in the deep end of a swimming pool.
To get away from the mirage by dialing down, no way to tell a dog from the other a half gazzilion clumps of cow plop or cactus.

 

[rmeyerwy]

"To get away from the mirage by dialing down, no way to tell a dog from the other a half gazzilion clumps of cow plop or cactus"..

lol more than once but that is all I am going to say, I have been guilty of nailing a cow chip that I was positive was moving, stood up and gave me the finner, now in my defense, they were usually a aways out there..but still...

 

[dusterdave173]

Well ok...I will admit to blasting a PD on a mound that I had killed an hour before--way out there ....

 

[urbanrifleman]

It seems that each time there is a post from a new shooter that the suggestions are all over the place as far as calibers, scopes, and other equipment that may be needed.
PD shooting is like most other things in life - it is easy to over complicate it.
I have been shooting PD's and ground squirrels for decades and would like to share some equipment suggestions to the new PD shooter. I am fortunate in that I live in a target rich enviroment, by mid-summer I have usually shot 3000 - 4000 rounds at ground squirrels and PD's.

A lot of new shooters may only go one time because of the expense, time constraints, family obligations, etc. No matter how enjoyable it may be it is not inexpensive.
Before you lay out a lot of money on equipment consider the KISS method - "learn to walk before you try to run".
Don't spend a small fortune buying stuff that is not necessary, after the first trip then you will have a lot better idea of what does and doesn't work for you.

Firearms - an accurate bolt action, a bolt action helps you pace yourself when shooting. You will find that you will take time to make the shot rather than trying quick follow-up shots that often happens with semi-autos.

Cartridge - 223 Rem. with 40 or 50 gr bullets.
Why? Multiple reasons.
Most PD shooting takes place within 300 yards, after that the hit ratio drops quickly and most shooters would agree that hitting is more fun than missing. There is nothing wrong with trying some 400 - 600 yd shots but you will likely soon go back to the shorter ranges for the higher hit probability.
Another reason for the 223 is that if you aren't a handloader there is a good availability of off the shelf ammo at reasonable prices. If you are a handloader the 22 caliber gives a good selection of components from various manufacturers and often at better prices, with brass being reasonably priced and free if you use range pick ups.

Recoil - if you are lucky enough to get into a good PD field 300 or more shots per day are doable and shooting heavier bullets creates more recoil and it will begin to wear on you. Recoil is cumulative. Even a 223 shooting 50 gr bullets can start to wear on you by the end of the day - remember this is supposed to be fun, not an endurance contest where you begin to dread pulling the trigger.

Multiple Firearms - I have mixed emotions about suggesting multiple firearms because the cost another firearm and scope incurs.
If you do take two firearms I suggest that both firearms be for the same cartridge with the same load, by doing that you aren't as likely have to be jumbling drop and drift differences around in your though process. It is amazing at how quickly the drop and drift become intuitive when using the same cartridge and load over and over.
While it is nice to have a couple of firearms in case the shooting gets fast, you can get by with just one by laying a wet rag on the barrel to keep it cooled down.

Scope - Any good variable. There is no point in spending the money for a high magnification scope because of heat and barrel heat mirage it becomes difficult to use much above 15 power anyway. Just be sure that the glass is good enough that it doesn't tire your eye out and cause eyestrain.
A scope with a "fancy" reticle is not necessary - sight in at one-inch high at 100 yards and hold the crosshairs at the top of the head at 300 yards. Basically you can hold on fur from 100 to 300 yards.

Rangefinder - They are handy to have but not absolutely necessary, although they will help you to learn to judge distances better - it is surprising how many of those 400 - 500 yard guesstimates are actually inside of 300 yards.

Binocular - Again they don't have to be top-end, a good pair of 10X that don't give eyestrain will work just fine.

Shooting Table - Nice to have but unless you have a big field with lots of targets setting up and taking down a shooting table becomes a pain in the butt. I generally just use one of the sand filled canvas bags across the hood of my truck because it is faster and makes me more mobile.

Spotting PD's - When I am shooting and spotting with a friend we will try to find some prominent feature in the field, such as a rock, an oddly shaped bush, anything like that so it is easily identifiable and use that as the center of the clock when directing shots for each other. Doing this saves a lot of time trying to locate targets. and adds more fun since the spotter and shooter get to see the results.
Example - "from the rock there is a PD at 2 o'clock about 50 yards out".

Great post.

Only comment is that some pdogs run at the sight of a truck. And they won't come out until it's gone.

 

[urbanrifleman]

It seems that each time there is a post from a new shooter that the suggestions are all over the place as far as calibers, scopes, and other equipment that may be needed.
PD shooting is like most other things in life - it is easy to over complicate it.
I have been shooting PD's and ground squirrels for decades and would like to share some equipment suggestions to the new PD shooter. I am fortunate in that I live in a target rich enviroment, by mid-summer I have usually shot 3000 - 4000 rounds at ground squirrels and PD's.

A lot of new shooters may only go one time because of the expense, time constraints, family obligations, etc. No matter how enjoyable it may be it is not inexpensive.
Before you lay out a lot of money on equipment consider the KISS method - "learn to walk before you try to run".
Don't spend a small fortune buying stuff that is not necessary, after the first trip then you will have a lot better idea of what does and doesn't work for you.

Firearms - an accurate bolt action, a bolt action helps you pace yourself when shooting. You will find that you will take time to make the shot rather than trying quick follow-up shots that often happens with semi-autos.

Cartridge - 223 Rem. with 40 or 50 gr bullets.
Why? Multiple reasons.
Most PD shooting takes place within 300 yards, after that the hit ratio drops quickly and most shooters would agree that hitting is more fun than missing. There is nothing wrong with trying some 400 - 600 yd shots but you will likely soon go back to the shorter ranges for the higher hit probability.
Another reason for the 223 is that if you aren't a handloader there is a good availability of off the shelf ammo at reasonable prices. If you are a handloader the 22 caliber gives a good selection of components from various manufacturers and often at better prices, with brass being reasonably priced and free if you use range pick ups.

Recoil - if you are lucky enough to get into a good PD field 300 or more shots per day are doable and shooting heavier bullets creates more recoil and it will begin to wear on you. Recoil is cumulative. Even a 223 shooting 50 gr bullets can start to wear on you by the end of the day - remember this is supposed to be fun, not an endurance contest where you begin to dread pulling the trigger.

Multiple Firearms - I have mixed emotions about suggesting multiple firearms because the cost another firearm and scope incurs.
If you do take two firearms I suggest that both firearms be for the same cartridge with the same load, by doing that you aren't as likely have to be jumbling drop and drift differences around in your though process. It is amazing at how quickly the drop and drift become intuitive when using the same cartridge and load over and over.
While it is nice to have a couple of firearms in case the shooting gets fast, you can get by with just one by laying a wet rag on the barrel to keep it cooled down.

Scope - Any good variable. There is no point in spending the money for a high magnification scope because of heat and barrel heat mirage it becomes difficult to use much above 15 power anyway. Just be sure that the glass is good enough that it doesn't tire your eye out and cause eyestrain.
A scope with a "fancy" reticle is not necessary - sight in at one-inch high at 100 yards and hold the crosshairs at the top of the head at 300 yards. Basically you can hold on fur from 100 to 300 yards.

Rangefinder - They are handy to have but not absolutely necessary, although they will help you to learn to judge distances better - it is surprising how many of those 400 - 500 yard guesstimates are actually inside of 300 yards.

Binocular - Again they don't have to be top-end, a good pair of 10X that don't give eyestrain will work just fine.

Shooting Table - Nice to have but unless you have a big field with lots of targets setting up and taking down a shooting table becomes a pain in the butt. I generally just use one of the sand filled canvas bags across the hood of my truck because it is faster and makes me more mobile.

Spotting PD's - When I am shooting and spotting with a friend we will try to find some prominent feature in the field, such as a rock, an oddly shaped bush, anything like that so it is easily identifiable and use that as the center of the clock when directing shots for each other. Doing this saves a lot of time trying to locate targets. and adds more fun since the spotter and shooter get to see the results.
Example - "from the rock there is a PD at 2 o'clock about 50 yards out".

If you have that many pdogs let me know and I'll sponsor the whole trip. Guns, ammo, food, whatever.

 

[Rick300]

"To get away from the mirage by dialing down, no way to tell a dog from the other a half gazzilion clumps of cow plop or cactus"..

I gotta admit that shooting a cowpie doesn't give me the same thrill as red mist

 

[sw282]

A thought came to mind about shooting dogs here in the west that is important to know. While in Billings, Montana Cabela's a few years back. I said to the gun sales counter about being over east to the Crow Indian Fair and seeing huge numbers of dogs out there and was thinking about stopping to shoot some. He said never do that? Why that's all Indian land and you can hunt dogs on it, but they will do to you like they did to me and others. Stop at the head office to get a permit to shot costs a small fee and they will set you in a chair and make you wait till the men who sells them is not busy that will take a long time. Then he will come out and get your money and info and then head out to lunch and you will not see him again till after a long lunch break and buy the time you finally get the permit it's to late to go out and get set up to do much shooting at all. Get the picture they hate white hate whites and will screw you over any way they can... There's so much other land loaded with dogs that is not near them to hunt on you are better of staying away from them. And if they catch you doing one little thing wrong on their land they have their own Indian police like our Highway Patrol and they will fine you to the max and get yourself in a heap of trouble because they hate the whites as well. That's from the someone who did it. advice is don't go there!!!!

Amen on shooting lndian land Lee. We tried the RoseDUD Sioux rez on the SD/Neb border for a couple yrs.
Twas the biggest rip-off beginning with the ''guide'' and ending with his cousin the game warden.

 

[drover]

If you have that many pdogs let me know and I'll sponsor the whole trip. Guns, ammo, food, whatever.

About 80% of that many rounds are at the gophers with PD's being the balance.
If I had to make a choice I would take gopher shooting over PD shooting. Gophers (ground squirrels) are a bigger challenge, depending on the species, they are only 1/3 to 1/2 as large as a PD. Also they are dumber they will stay above ground much longer than a PD will.
The downside to gophers is that are only up for about 4 months and the spend the rest of the year underground.

I use 22 LR on gophers out to 100 - 125 yds and then switch over to my 223 for the longer shots.

drover

 

[spaniel]

Only point I'll take major disagreement with is most shots being within 300 yards. I've never shot new pup season, maybe that's what is being referred to, but in general my experience is that when shooting starts opportunities within 300 yards are gone in a matter of minutes. Around 400 yards they will stay up. With a suppressor the situation improves.

 

[Rick in Oregon]

spaniel: That fact alone is why many prefer ground squirrels to PD's, as they're much more stupid, stay up during the hottest shooting, are more plentiful. Downside, they only have a 4 month above-ground season.

Under 300 yards for GS's? Oh yeah, much shooting under 300. I always take a 22LR handgun, revolver or auto, as it sees about 15-25 rounds/day for the close ones that pop up 20' from the bench. Like I said, they're as stupid as the current WH resident.

 

[Tesoro]

I have always wanted to shoot PD's and thinking about this spring. I live on the Oregon coast so closest would be Wyoming I guess. Can a guy just go over there and find an unmolested public land to have some fun? I dont mind camping, or rather prefer to. In Eastern Oregon it has turned into business to shoot ground squirrels and they want you to pay like $200 a day to shoot on the Alfalfa fields! Screw that.

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

No unmolested public land prairie dogs, since satellite imagery became available. States with pd populations often have publicly available studies of all public accessible lands, so no secrets.

 

[Tesoro]

No unmolested public land prairie dogs, since satellite imagery became available. States with pd populations often have publicly available studies of all public accessible lands, so no secrets.

Figures. I miss the days of topo maps and compass! A natural filter. Only met like kind out in the boonies. Now I meet man bun guys in Toyota FJ cruisers.

 

[Rick in Oregon]

Figures. I miss the days of topo maps and compass! A natural filter. Only met like kind out in the boonies. Now I meet man bun guys in Toyota FJ cruisers.

You're not the only one who laments the birth of all the new technology. I hear ya on the natural filter and the arrival of the man buns too. I long for "the old days" when just a friendly knock on the door gave access to days of great rat shooting.

 

[Tesoro]

You're not the only one who laments the birth of all the new technology. I hear ya on the natural filter and the arrival of the man buns too. I long for "the old days" when just a friendly knock on the door gave access to days of great rat shooting.

In E Oregon some of the 'outfitters' around Bend call it rat 'Hunting' and actually get people who fly in from East coast to 'hunt'. Amazing. When I was a kid you could go to Christmas Valley and farmers would give you a brick of 22 and a hand drawn map of where to go and not to go.

 

[Tesoro]

And for a post script, or what ever it is called, we have rock chucks in Oregon high desert. PD look alikes but larger. They are a marmot that is not necessarily an agricultural pest. They have family groups so we would find them and then shoot to half population and move on to revisit next year. Well those days have changed cause now the idiots wipe out the whole colony and no regeneration. People!!

 

[Daddycaddie67]

Amen on shooting lndian land Lee. We tried the RoseDUD Sioux rez on the SD/Neb border for a couple yrs.
Twas the biggest rip-off beginning with the ''guide'' and ending with his cousin the game warden.

We shot the Rose Bud in june. Our guide and outfitter were amazing, we had a great trip.

 

[drover]

The comments about paying for shooting gophers and PD reminded me of an incident back in the mid-80's.
A Montana friend was one of the first to start offering PD hunting as a business. I was visiting him one day and was talking with one of his clients, when the client mentioned how much he paid per day to shoot I must have had an astonished look because the client went on to explain to me why he thought it was reasonable. After listening to him I have to agree.

Client - I have been coming to Montana for years to hunt elk which costs me about $6000 for a 5 day hunt with no guarantees of a shot. For that $6000 I have to ride a balky horse for at least a half-day to get to camp. We spend the rest of the day getting settled in. The next we get up before dawn and if I am lucky I will get some so-so food and bad coffee from a surly cook before heading out to hunt. The weather may or not be nice, if it isn't nice I may sleep in a leaky tent. If I get lucky I get a shot at an elk, then if I get it down I have to help dress it out and pack it out, then get the meat packed for shipment home.

On the other hand if I come here to shoot gophers and PD's the weather is generally nice, I get fed good steaks and some whiskey if I want it, I sleep in a warm bed and don't have to put up with leaky tents and surly cooks. Not only that I get to shoot all day if I want and as many rounds as I want. For me $250 a day is a bargain.

drover