Some issue loading Hornady V-Max in .223 Rem ?
- Thread starter brccd
- Start date
Barely start bullet then you can lower ram each time to where you can rotate case. It will help with concentric loads too.
hmmm ok, will give that a try, thx
Another tip might be to do outside chamfer first then inside last. The I would go I’ve neck a few twists into fine steel wool or maybe better a scotchbite pad to smooth things up.
Rank Amateur
Gold $$ Contributor
So, let’s review: When loading a bottleneck case, the case is typically clean. It then gets lubed and sized/deprimed, typically (and advisedly) with a full length sizing die. Alternatively, the case is deprimed prior to resizing with a dedicated die. The neck is expanded either with an expander button/mandrel in the sizing die or with a separate expander die. Where necessary the case is trimmed and the case mouth is deburred and chamfered. If the chosen load includes a flat-based bullet, the case mouth is typically then slightly belled (could be with the hold-down die on a Dillon, or a dedicated belling die like the M die). The case is primed, charged and a bullet is dropped/placed in the neck. That is seated with a seating die appropriate to the bullet type/shape, and the bell is reduced/removed by the seating die itself, or that is followed by a crimp die of some sort.
This really isn’t rocket science. With few exceptions, this thread has advised essentially the full (normal) reloading process
. As OP started with pre-primed cases, the ideal process would include all of these steps except that the cases are not getting deprimed (depriming pin removed from sizing die), and no primer addition is needed. OP skips over any of these steps at his/her own option & peril. We all run into problems if/when we try to shortcut the proven process. If the cases start with necks out of round, that can be addressed by sizing and/or perhaps expanding. Out of round will not be corrected by chamfering. If the case neck is round but too narrow for smooth and concentric entry of the bullet, that can be solved by expanding and/or chamfering and/or belling (and preferably all three). Too narrow will not be corrected by sizing or alternate seating stem/die. Applying the wrong “solution” to the problem will create its own set of resulting problems.
Case necks that are out of round/bulged in some way by/during the bullet seating process cannot be corrected after the fact with any process other than some form of collet crush (or grinding, which is of course inappropriate). Preventing the bulges resulting from out of round or too small mouth may be corrected by sizing or expanding or chamfering or belling or some combination of those, and the reliable/correct solution is dependent on the specific issue in OP’s brass/bullet combination.
I’m just trying to condense the advice to “figure out what problem you’re trying to address, and then add/change steps to address THAT problem. OP: review the total process you are using with THESE cases, determine which normal steps you are leaving out, and then add them back selectively to address the problem.
This really isn’t rocket science. With few exceptions, this thread has advised essentially the full (normal) reloading process
. As OP started with pre-primed cases, the ideal process would include all of these steps except that the cases are not getting deprimed (depriming pin removed from sizing die), and no primer addition is needed. OP skips over any of these steps at his/her own option & peril. We all run into problems if/when we try to shortcut the proven process. If the cases start with necks out of round, that can be addressed by sizing and/or perhaps expanding. Out of round will not be corrected by chamfering. If the case neck is round but too narrow for smooth and concentric entry of the bullet, that can be solved by expanding and/or chamfering and/or belling (and preferably all three). Too narrow will not be corrected by sizing or alternate seating stem/die. Applying the wrong “solution” to the problem will create its own set of resulting problems.Case necks that are out of round/bulged in some way by/during the bullet seating process cannot be corrected after the fact with any process other than some form of collet crush (or grinding, which is of course inappropriate). Preventing the bulges resulting from out of round or too small mouth may be corrected by sizing or expanding or chamfering or belling or some combination of those, and the reliable/correct solution is dependent on the specific issue in OP’s brass/bullet combination.
I’m just trying to condense the advice to “figure out what problem you’re trying to address, and then add/change steps to address THAT problem. OP: review the total process you are using with THESE cases, determine which normal steps you are leaving out, and then add them back selectively to address the problem.
here is a question...assuming you had brand new cases, would you expect to go right to load a flat bottom bullet in them? or are people saying that even a brand new case needs to be sized and chamferred for this?
FYI, the cases I had, had obviously been sized, primed...necks all looked perfectly round, no crazy buldges, etc...Went to the range today , and saw no advantage with flat bottoms compared to boat tails. So for me, stickin with boat tails....loaded thousands of rounds over the years with boat tails, never had this trouble.
I was checking every round with a gauge...and maybe the faulty rounds might work in the gun...then maybe not. If I load a round, I want to be sure it works and doesnt screw things up or jam in the gun.
Maybe it works for others, and if your happy with them, go with it...for me...no.
FYI, the cases I had, had obviously been sized, primed...necks all looked perfectly round, no crazy buldges, etc...Went to the range today , and saw no advantage with flat bottoms compared to boat tails. So for me, stickin with boat tails....loaded thousands of rounds over the years with boat tails, never had this trouble.
I was checking every round with a gauge...and maybe the faulty rounds might work in the gun...then maybe not. If I load a round, I want to be sure it works and doesnt screw things up or jam in the gun.
Maybe it works for others, and if your happy with them, go with it...for me...no.
dellet
Gold $$ Contributor
Brass that was sized eight years ago, and brand new brass should be sized before use. The problem is the inside diameter of the brass and possibly not deburred and chamfered after trimming or cleaning.
By using a boat tail you are not correctly the problem with the brass, only hiding the symptom.
It will shoot different than properly sized brass and may have a higher pressure.
By using a boat tail you are not correctly the problem with the brass, only hiding the symptom.
It will shoot different than properly sized brass and may have a higher pressure.
Brand new brass needs to be resized? all? or just when using flat bottom bullets?
I purchased new lapua brass for 308, and 6.5CM....did not size, loaded, all worked perfectly...obviously need sizing now after firing.
dellet
Gold $$ Contributor
It is best to at least size the necks. Because of cleaning after they are formed, and damage while shipping, often the necks are no longer round and often under sized.
A boat tail taper acts like a mandrel or sizing button and reforms the neck when you seat the bullet. It’s much more difficult to do with a flat base, but it can be done.
Necks with too small of diameter will have a different starting pressure.
If you want more consistency on your first firing, sizing at least the necks first will help.
Check the outside diameter of a new neck, and the same one after it has been sized with your die. There is a good chance you will find a difference. The one sized with your die will probably be larger diameter.
Most people do not have a separate neck sizing die so the only way to correct the neck is size the whole case.
DShortt
Gold $$ Contributor
I chamfer and size any new brass I use. Always have.
Unless you measure it, how else do you know what you have?
Rank Amateur
Gold $$ Contributor
Yes. Full hand-loading process except for cleaning/depriming. I don’t know of any brass that comes from the factory sized and expanded to the dimensions YOU use when you reload, nor have I seen new brass factory deburred/chamfered. Quality or precision ammo uses the best available components that are assembled to produce rounds that are the SAME, round to round. Making each round you load as close to the SAME as every other round you load is the goal of precision hand-loading. CAN you load virgin brass without any prep? Sure, but it ain't gonna be the same as the same brass loaded the second or third time unless you do what is necessary to make it the same.
DShortt
Gold $$ Contributor
FWIW - I have found the Hornady Competition seater die to be a bit more difficult to use.
The way the seating stem is made, the bullet is well up into the die body when seating begins, and you can't see a thing. Have to rely on feel.
With boat-tail bullets, so long as you set the bullet in the case mouth straight, I think it'll be fine.
But with flat-base bullets, if it goes canted for some reason, you'll never know until it 'doesn't feel right'.
And then it's too late. Case neck distorted/bent. Bullet probably nicked/damaged. Been there. Done that. Got the Tee-shirt.
No Es Bueno.
The way the seating stem is made, the bullet is well up into the die body when seating begins, and you can't see a thing. Have to rely on feel.
With boat-tail bullets, so long as you set the bullet in the case mouth straight, I think it'll be fine.
But with flat-base bullets, if it goes canted for some reason, you'll never know until it 'doesn't feel right'.
And then it's too late. Case neck distorted/bent. Bullet probably nicked/damaged. Been there. Done that. Got the Tee-shirt.
No Es Bueno.
effendude
Gold $$ Contributor
I'm glad you found something that worked for you. My and others frustration with this post is we were offering reasonable, simple solutions to your issue. It was obvious to many of us that your processed brass had undersized necks. Jamming a flat based bullet into a fired, albeit processed, undersized case was asking for trouble. Millions of rounds of flat based V-Max (and others) bullets are loaded into properly sized, fired cases without case mouth chamfering or other extra steps without any issues. I chamfer new brass inside and outside before initial sizing, before initial loading. I never chamfer case mouths again until the brass is trimmed for length, often several firings later.
You load the way you want, but you're missing the purpose of this forum if you're not willing to consider advice from it's members.
Scott
Processed .223 brass that has been run through Dillion dies have very tight necks.
Yes,, when I get brand new Lapua brass for 6 br , I have to use an expander mandrel to open the case mouths a bit or else if I don’t,,,, then bullet seats way to hard and will cause issues. And this is with boat tail bullets only! Of course I have to chamfer and debur first of course.
A Redding seater also will help because it will align the bullet straight before it enters the case mouth, that’s why it was suggested.
I personally use the Le Wilson inline dies that have even tighter tolerance’s to keep everything perfectly straight during sizing and seating.
The Redding competition seater is pretty good but the body where it holds the case is oversized quite a bit,, reason why I favor the Wilson arbor press dies.
I’m also not needing my ammo to be rattled around in a machine gun so a death grip neck tension is not needed lol.
So what do I do? Lube inside of necks with graphite and run an expander mandrel in to open the case necks. Works every time!
A Redding seater also will help because it will align the bullet straight before it enters the case mouth, that’s why it was suggested.
I personally use the Le Wilson inline dies that have even tighter tolerance’s to keep everything perfectly straight during sizing and seating.
The Redding competition seater is pretty good but the body where it holds the case is oversized quite a bit,, reason why I favor the Wilson arbor press dies.
I’m also not needing my ammo to be rattled around in a machine gun so a death grip neck tension is not needed lol.
So what do I do? Lube inside of necks with graphite and run an expander mandrel in to open the case necks. Works every time!
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interesting...I use the Hornady seater with micrometer, ( Seater stem for VLD) for my 6.5CM with Hornady tipped ELD, works well, and Redding seater with VLD micrometer seater, for 308, sierra tipped MK. I have the Hornady seater for 223 VMAX, which works fairly well, if I really prep the cases for these flat bottoms. VMAX boat tails, no problems
With new lapua cases, I used them straight away, with the boat tails, with no prep, other than dipping the necks in the redding imperial graphite, and never had any issue. I also will use the redding or RCBS small base dies on 308 and 6.5, again, have pretty good results. These flat bottom guys just make me nuts. Maybe one day I can sit with someone doing them and see what I am missing! for now...going boat tails! At 200yds, with what I am doing, shots are pretty accurate. So, that makes me happy!
What makes it better than the other two gauges?
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