So if you were starting to precision reload from scratch...

[TerryH]

What would you buy? I need to load .308 for my impending F Class adventure. I've researched and read and am now suffering from total information confusion. What is really necessary to do this and do it well?

 

[dkhunt14]

A good press for sizing, (Rockchucker, Redding, or Forster Co-ax). An arbor press for bullet seating. A decent dial caliper. Decent full length die and Wilson seater for arbor press (I like micrometer adjustment). A decent neck Micrometer. Stony point headspace gauge set (now Hornady) set of bullet pieces to go with it to measure loaded bullet length. A decent scale (maybe an FX 120). Learn to load good ammo and add from there. Matt

 

[MarkS]

A good press for sizing, (Rockchucker, Redding, or Forster Co-ax). An arbor press for bullet seating. A decent dial caliper. Decent full length die and Wilson seater for arbor press (I like micrometer adjustment). A decent neck Micrometer. Stony point headspace gauge set (now Hornady) set of bullet pieces to go with it to measure loaded bullet length. A decent scale (maybe an FX 120). Learn to load good ammo and add from there. Matt

All of this. I would add a Bushing F/L sizer die, like a Redding "S". Set die up to just do a shoulder bump every firing.

Mark Schronce

 

[hrlincoln]

You will need a trimmer to trim cases to consistent length.

 

[Berger.Fan222]

What would you buy? I need to load .308 for my impending F Class adventure. I've researched and read and am now suffering from total information confusion. What is really necessary to do this and do it well?

It depends on what you mean by "well" and whether the focus is on mid-range (300-600 yards) or long range (800-1000 yards).

I've coached a number of friends and family up to the point of regularly shooting high master scores (196+/200 for 20 shots) at mid-range using RCBS Rockchucker presses with standard RCBS FL dies. It takes at least one barrel life for most shooters to reach this level of proficiency unless they are experienced cross-overs from a closely related rifle sport with lots of precision reloading. (I gather from your question that you are not.) In addition to the press and dies, the scales we use are +/- 0.02 grains of powder, and we load Sierra or Berger bullets into Lapua brass (without any sorting) with a Hodgdon extreme powder and shoot off of Harris-type bipods.

This level of shooting "well" should enable you to progress to Master and/High Master at mid-range and win a share of local matches. You probably will not be super competitive at regional and national events. My experience has been that keeping the reloading side simple allows new F-Class shooters to focus on things that are needed to progress from 60 shot tournament scores in the 550s to 560s to 570s to 580s to 590s.

Each of those ranges of improvement usually requires focusing on different things and mastering them. The more advanced techniques requiring the more specialized dies and equipment are more needed for the climb from the lower 590s up toward 600 which distinguishes the guys who are barely High Masters who win local matches off and on from the High Masters who are competitive nationally. But getting advice from High Masters about how they climbed upward in the 590s is more likely a distraction than being truly useful for most shooters who have not even broken 570 yet.

Get some simple stuff. See what it takes to break 570 reliably. Then make a couple tweaks and figure out what it takes to break 580 reliably. Only then will you likely be able to understand and appreciate the advice and equipment you need to break 590 and approach 600 for a 60 shot event.

 

[Shynloco]

Terry,
I'd have to say Matt and Mark pretty much covered it. You'll also need a decent Case Trimmer and make sure you get an "S" FL Resizing Die. Now in case finances are a concern, the FX 120 is a beautiful, but expensive Electronic Scale ($500 - $600). And there are plenty of "Micro Scales" and I've tried a ton of them. And most of those only go one digit to the right of the decimal point. So I FINALLY ended up with a Tanita 1210N ($190) which goes two places to the right of the decimal point. It is extremely accurate, probably because it was designed for Precious Stones, but measures in five categories, Grains, included. SO I'm not trying to start a scale discussion here, but I tried out other popular scales that gave me headaches because of set-up time needed (before they'd settled down), drifting and inconsistent readings from load to load. So that's only a suggestion if the FX 120 is too heavy on your wallet. But have fun in your new endeavors. Lots to learn ahead, but a real pleasure as you progress.

Alex

 

[T-shooter]

Here is a quick list of what I can think of. I put the brand I use after each:

A good single stage cast iron press. (Lee)
A full length sizing die. (Forster BR )
Case lube for resizing. (Hornady Unique)
A precision seating die. (Forster BR or Redding)
A primer installer tool. (Lee)
A case trimmer. (Lee)
A dial caliper. (Lyman)
A collet bullet puller. (RCBS)
An inside and outside chamfer / deburring tool. (RCBS)
An outside neck turning tool with a matching expander. (K&M)
A set of Hornady comparator tools with a case and bullet inserts. (Hornady)
A good scale, an electronic is best (A&D FX electronic)
A powder funnel. (Hornady)
A powder trickler. (Dandy electric)
Neck lube for seating (Imperial Dry Lube)
Powder, Bullets, Brass Cases, Primers

 

[Hopkins]

A key element to consider including all of the aforementioned tools is the need to be able to properly anneal your brass for consistent repeatable neck tension.

 

[savageshooter86]

If you are serious about this new addiction called Fclass then buy once, cry once. Been there done that. Over 3 years I have upgraded to all this. When I started out using Lee products and quickly realized I was not getting the best out of my reloads I could

Forester coax press
Giraud trimmer
RCBS uniflow Powder thrower
AMP annealer
Whidden reloading die set
Good set of calipers. Buy a couple
FX120 scale
Berger Bullets
Lapua Brass
Good barrel

 

[TerryH]

Thanks to everyone that has posted so far. Sorry, I should have been a bit more specific on the specifics...

I absolutely love to shoot. I've been bitten by the long range bug in a big way. I have never reloaded a single cartridge. I have a F-T/R .308 chambered for the 200.20x's. I have a good supply of projectiles and I have Lapua brass. I have a decent shop setup at home which I have been working in and on for 25 years. Over those years I have bought and replaced nearly every machine. Some of them multiple times. I'm trying to avoid that as much as possible in this endeavor. I have a good working knowledge of machines and mechanical principles in general. I run a body shop and have for many years. I don't want to buy everything multiple times if I can avoid it. With that being said, I do not have an unlimited budget. I do like to have nice(r) equipment.

My current shop setup just for reference.





There are both mid and long range matches that I'd like to shoot on the local level. I have no clue how far I will desire to go in this endeavor but if things go like they normally do I will at least attempt to compete on a higher level.

The rifle...



Thanks again for all the informative posts so far. I have already purchased an M5 that is on it'w way to Scott to be tuned. Pretty much decided to just get the Coax press and call it good. It's everything else that has my head spinning.

 

[gotcha]

Here is a quick list of what I can think of. I put the brand I use after each:

+1 on the LEE case trimmer tool. Pro's, Extremely consistent length, Cheap & stupid simple. Con, Trim length isn't adjustable. ....... Chuck it up in your drill press and FLY through trimming................... Beautiful shop!! I wish mine was half as neat

 

[T-shooter]

Thanks to everyone that has posted so far. Sorry, I should have been a bit more specific on the specifics...

I absolutely love to shoot. I've been bitten by the long range bug in a big way. I have never reloaded a single cartridge. I have a F-T/R .308 chambered for the 200.20x's. I have a good supply of projectiles and I have Lapua brass. I have a decent shop setup at home which I have been working in and on for 25 years. Over those years I have bought and replaced nearly every machine. Some of them multiple times. I'm trying to avoid that as much as possible in this endeavor. I have a good working knowledge of machines and mechanical principles in general. I run a body shop and have for many years. I don't want to buy everything multiple times if I can avoid it. With that being said, I do not have an unlimited budget. I do like to have nice(r) equipment.

My current shop setup just for reference.





There are both mid and long range matches that I'd like to shoot on the local level. I have no clue how far I will desire to go in this endeavor but if things go like they normally do I will at least attempt to compete on a higher level.

The rifle...



Thanks again for all the informative posts so far.

Nice shop layout!

 

[Berger.Fan222]

One thing that has not been mentioned is a chronograph, which I regard as essential for precision reloading even at the introductory level, especially for the heavier bullets in .308. Lower velocities mean more vertical dispersion for velocity variations, but vertical dispersion itself does not always come from velocity variations, so the ability to know your velocities, SD, and ES is essential for load development and quickly diagnosing reasons for dropped points due to vertical dispersion. Together with 100-200 yard accuracy, velocity and the variations are likely the most common feedback you'll have in the reloading process. Reloading without velocity measurements makes it much harder to identify and correct issues.

You will eventually become pretty good at recognizing pressure signs in brass, but until that happens velocity is likely to be the most reliable indicator of whether you're pushing pressures too high, can add another 0.5 grains in search of the next "node", or need to back down the a lower velocity (and pressure) node. Chasing the higher nodes is tempting for most newer F-Class shooters, but I tend to recommend shooters settle for lower nodes until they have a few years of precision reloading under their belt.

But these discussions run the risk of giving the mistaken impression that the reloading tools matter more than the reloading (and shooting) skill. Equipment is never a substitute for skill, and the precision reloading skills you seek really take time and attention to detail to develop. I've seen the tendency toward confirmation bias ascribe changes in outcomes to recent changes in equipment, when often it was a change in technique, skill, or a new lot of the same component which caused the change in outcome.

 

[Darrel Martin]

I am dumbfounded by anyone who can keep any kind of work space that neat.Awesome.Plenty of good advice above. My biggest mistake over time has been buying what I thought I needed,and then replacing it with better tools over time.It would be a good idea to find others in your area and look at their setups , but as an alternative , this forum has good discussions on the pros and cons of most equipment if you keep reading and searching.

 

[TerryH]

I am dumbfounded by anyone who can keep any kind of work space that neat.Awesome.Plenty of good advice above. My biggest mistake over time has been buying what I thought I needed,and then replacing it with better tools over time.It would be a good idea to find others in your area and look at their setups , but as an alternative , this forum has good discussions on the pros and cons of most equipment if you keep reading and searching.

Let's just say that the shop doesn't always look like that. I usually don't take pictures during those times.

 

[Iowa Fox]

You younger fellows are very fortunate today. When I started there was no internet and good books were almost impossible to find since I was a farm boy in the middle of no place. Your best hope was to stumble into a older gent that was a experienced precision reloader. Not many tools on the market back then, it was mostly home made stuff.

Terry, I thought your shop was a display showroom for a tool company.

 

[TerryH]

One thing that has not been mentioned is a chronograph, which I regard as essential for precision reloading even at the introductory level, especially for the heavier bullets in .308. Lower velocities mean more vertical dispersion for velocity variations, but vertical dispersion itself does not always come from velocity variations, so the ability to know your velocities, SD, and ES is essential for load development and quickly diagnosing reasons for dropped points due to vertical dispersion. Together with 100-200 yard accuracy, velocity and the variations are likely the most common feedback you'll have in the reloading process. Reloading without velocity measurements makes it much harder to identify and correct issues.

You will eventually become pretty good at recognizing pressure signs in brass, but until that happens velocity is likely to be the most reliable indicator of whether you're pushing pressures too high, can add another 0.5 grains in search of the next "node", or need to back down the a lower velocity (and pressure) node. Chasing the higher nodes is tempting for most newer F-Class shooters, but I tend to recommend shooters settle for lower nodes until they have a few years of precision reloading under their belt.

But these discussions run the risk of giving the mistaken impression that the reloading tools matter more than the reloading (and shooting) skill. Equipment is never a substitute for skill, and the precision reloading skills you seek really take time and attention to detail to develop. I've seen the tendency toward confirmation bias ascribe changes in outcomes to recent changes in equipment, when often it was a change in technique, skill, or a new lot of the same component which caused the change in outcome.

Thanks for your response. I have a Caldwell chrono now. Seems to be ok. Clueless if it's accurate enough for this application or if I need to do something else in that area as well. I'm quite honestly a bit overwhelmed when I add up what is needed not to mention the learning curve.

 

[marchboom]

Forster Co-Ax press, without a doubt. Have used many other presses and this, IMO, is the best. Set up your dies once and that's it. Should have acquired it sooner.

Annealing machine is a great addition.

Quality measuring tools.

I like Forster and Redding dies.

Case gauges.

Wind flags.

Chronograph is mandatory to know what's going on with your loads.

 

[smokinghole]

I just want to add that to purchase a Coax press, here's a trick I learned recently. Buy Cabela's gift cards on eBay, you get $100 for $82, buy enough to cover the press price. Wait for a sale or free shipping on the coax, and bam, you saved 18%. So at $320 it comes out to $262.40. I just saw a used one quickly go for $275 elsewhere. So for $328 you get $72 bonus with the gift cards.

 

[GaryL1959]

Let's just say that the shop doesn't always look like that. I usually don't take pictures during those times.

My shop wouln't be that neat if I burned it down and built a new one. ...