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Simple question for our Australian members.

You can not use a firearm for self defence. Equal force is baseball bat to baseball bat not bat to firearm. Intimidation is ok but how did you get it out of your locked safe so quickly.

Sorry Bindi, but my understanding is you CAN use a firearm for self defence, and i believe it has been done and defended in courts. But you are correct, the question is how did you get it out of the safe so quickly...... "officer, i was cleaning it at the time"

Self defence in Australia is using methods not disproportionate to the threat. You cant shoot an un armed intruder.. but thats the wonderful country of Australia that we life in. Handguns on the streets are very rare, common criminals very very rarely will be armed with firearms of any types as they are harder to get.

When you do hear of armed break ins, you can almost be guaranteed that the victim was "known to police". Most of this type of crime is criminal v criminal. Typically bikies/drug dealers taking on rival dealers.

As so many of the Australians , or past residents have said above, no gun culture, minimal guns in general society, and most of us dont feel at danger of an armed breakin to our house, or a shooting in the mall.... because it VERY rarely happens.

There will always be people in our society that wear tin foil hats, think the government is out to do them harm, and feel like they need a gun to protect themselves (generally from people that think like they do).. but they are the few.
 
A just government would not require a "fair fight" between a homeowner and a criminal breaking into the house. Would an Australian jury actually vote to convict a woman who defends herself with a firearm when attacked in her own home by a knife-wielding man twice her size who has kicked the door down?

Among my American acquaintances I don't know 12 (or even 1) that would vote to convict in such a case.
 
Sorry Bindi, but my understanding is you CAN use a firearm for self defence, and i believe it has been done and defended in courts. But you are correct, the question is how did you get it out of the safe so quickly...... "officer, i was cleaning it at the time"

Self defence in Australia is using methods not disproportionate to the threat. You cant shoot an un armed intruder.. but thats the wonderful country of Australia that we life in. Handguns on the streets are very rare, common criminals very very rarely will be armed with firearms of any types as they are harder to get.

When you do hear of armed break ins, you can almost be guaranteed that the victim was "known to police". Most of this type of crime is criminal v criminal. Typically bikies/drug dealers taking on rival dealers.

As so many of the Australians , or past residents have said above, no gun culture, minimal guns in general society, and most of us dont feel at danger of an armed breakin to our house, or a shooting in the mall.... because it VERY rarely happens.

There will always be people in our society that wear tin foil hats, think the government is out to do them harm, and feel like they need a gun to protect themselves (generally from people that think like they do).. but they are the few.

It has happened an old man shot several much younger guys who broke into his home. The police did not charge him because of the local up rising against that happening. That court case was never going to go well for the police or law courts. The out come would have set a precedent they did not want. That regulation still stands as they want no castle law.
 
A just government would not require a "fair fight" between a homeowner and a criminal breaking into the house. Would an Australian jury actually vote to convict a woman who defends herself with a firearm when attacked in her own home by a knife-wielding man twice her size who has kicked the door down?

Among my American acquaintances I don't know 12 (or even 1) that would vote to convict in such a case.

That's a classic case of parity vs disparity so your chances of being acquitted in that scenario would be reasonable.
 
It would be interesting to see what the perception on this issue would be if land to population ratios are similar. 3 million sq. miles with 24 mil. people vs. 164k sq miles and more people like our beloved California.I think if Australians lived among our thugs they would be packing an m 60 just to go fill the gas tank.
 
It would be interesting to see what the perception on this issue would be if land to population ratios are similar. 3 million sq. miles with 24 mil. people vs. 164k sq miles and more people like our beloved California.I think if Australians lived among our thugs they would be packing an m 60 just to go fill the gas tank.

Areas are developing that are no go to Aussies. Would be nice to have M60s but not practical singularly.
 
I would rather have freedom over a false sense of safety.
I feel truly sorry for our brothers in England, Australia, and Canada who's father's and fore father's fought so bravely and served with such honor along side the US in WW2 and never got to experience the same freedoms that we have here in the US. We must vote to preserve what we have left!
John
 
Mad max country is about 8 hours from where I live....
I’m near the east coast and they never made it that far
I do travel into mad max country but it’s loaded to the teeth with an off road buggy to shoot pigs- that has a mad max feel about it!
And just what do you think people think when they see us out in your hunting buggy with the arsenal mounted up top, dead animals hanging off it and us with crazed looks from shooting all night?
 
I feel truly sorry for our brothers in England, Australia, and Canada who's father's and fore father's fought so bravely and served with such honor along side the US in WW2 and never got to experience the same freedoms that we have here in the US. We must vote to preserve what we have left!
John
It depends on how you measure freedom. If you google the various freedom index's and studies from around the world, the results might surprise you. Australia usually rates between 3rd to 6th in the world (usually slightly beaten by Canada and Scandinavian countries, with U.K not far behind) in freedom ratings. USA rarely if ever seems to rank in the top 50. This is in various different studies from different countries, so by most measures, Aussies don't seem to have too many freedom issues.
 
And just what do you think people think when they see us out in your hunting buggy with the arsenal mounted up top, dead animals hanging off it and us with crazed looks from shooting all night?

I don't know and don't care I am doing a job most don't want to know about.
 
One question that I have not seen answered her is: What is the crime and homicide rate in drug the infested areas of Australia? Are guns prevalent in those areas?
!
Willow might have more information about crime and homicide rates in the drug infested areas, but my guess is that actual homicide against innocent people would not be that high, but yes we do hear news stories sometimes of murders, so of course it will happen. The majority of homicides appear to be between drug dealers, gang members etc. The criminals in Australia are likely nearly as well armed as criminals in USA and we do often see news stories of bikie wars and gang members knocking each other off. Most people are not too worried about this and I think even the police likely consider the crims to be sorting their own issues out just nicely.
One difference with many criminal gangs or bikie gangs in Australia is the rule about not involving "civilians" or innocents. Most professional criminals realise that killing someone not in the criminal world will draw too much heat from police and the general public. Often, wayward gang members who do harm an innocent person will in turn be killed (or very severely dealt with) by their own gang members.
 
Willow might have more information about crime and homicide rates in the drug infested areas, but my guess is that actual homicide against innocent people would not be that high, but yes we do hear news stories sometimes of murders, so of course it will happen. The majority of homicides appear to be between drug dealers, gang members etc. The criminals in Australia are likely nearly as well armed as criminals in USA and we do often see news stories of bikie wars and gang members knocking each other off. Most people are not too worried about this and I think even the police likely consider the crims to be sorting their own issues out just nicely.
One difference with many criminal gangs or bikie gangs in Australia is the rule about not involving "civilians" or innocents. Most professional criminals realise that killing someone not in the criminal world will draw too much heat from police and the general public. Often, wayward gang members who do harm an innocent person will in turn be killed (or very severely dealt with) by their own gang members.

Agree
 
Hey, as I said before, it’s different. Societies like NZ, Australia and the UK have made different choices. For example, we don’t have hand guns. But then we worry much less - if at all - about mass shootings in our schools. And we don’t talk of “home invasions”. These societies have chosen to accept the trade offs. (My point about hunting was that the gun laws their aren’t intrusive - they don’t affect the activities we care about because we don’t look to them for defence or need to.) And before you say “guns don’t kill people” sure but whackos with ready access to guns kill a lot more people than whackos without.
 
You can not use a firearm for self defence. Equal force is baseball bat to baseball bat not bat to firearm. Intimidation is ok but how did you get it out of your locked safe so quickly.

This is nonsense. I have to go look for a baseball bat, or I can't defend my daughter?

If a miscreant is attacking my daughter, I will grab any tool available and eliminate the threat. Perhaps that tool is a shotgun. Perhaps it is (Gasp!) an AR-15. Perhaps I will rip his throat out with my bare hands. A baseball bad is LETHAL FORCE. I Will use LETHAL FORCE in whatever form available to end the threat to my daughter.

ANY prosecutor who would attempt to charge me with a crime for doing so, isn't worthy of his office. A Jury of my peers would see this.
 
So make sure you check the perp's vitals periodically as you throttle him with your daughter's baseball bat.
 

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