Sightron 10-50x

[memilanuk]

Other than the lighted reticule, and scope caps, what bells and whistles does the NF have that the Sightron don't ????????

Proven track record in competition over tens or hundreds of thousands of rounds?

Not saying that Sightron can't or won't do the same... but it's 'premier' models are just now getting to where NF has been for years.

Some newer features (higher magnification and bigger objective) are very welcome, and initial field reports are quite promising... but I think its interesting that these new scopes are being hailed as the second coming with not even one season of competitive use on them. ???

 

[Rust]

Well, my last scope buying decision was simplified because the 12-42 Nightforce was available, the Sightron was not. Had the Sightron been available I would have likely gone with the Nightforce anyhow because I don't like target dot or fine crosshair recticules.

Given that Nightforce has only two scope lines, the NSX and BR, with no high volume/low margin "value" lines, setting retail price makes sense as a business model. More dealers are willing to carry them since they don't have to cut their own throats competing against a lowballer. Thus better market penetration and a stable market.

 

[HEAD0001]

First off. If your cost is $800. And you make $200 in profit then your profit margin or return on investment is 25%. Not 20%.

Fixed pricing of products is bad business IMO. And I have been in retail and wholesale sales all my life.

If inventory is really short then you do not see dealers sell for MSRP, they will sell it for more than MSRP if they can get it. So why shouldn't a consumer buy it for less if he can. A prime example of this is primers. If a dealer sells primers for a price higher than MSRP, are they gouging?? Should that dealer be punished by the mfr.?? You can not have it both ways.

The manufacturer sets a pricing structure for one reason and one reason only. To create a chain for their product to be sold. It is easy for a mfr. to sell his product to a dealer who is making a good profit margin. Or to a dealer who is making a mark on return. So the mfr. tries to control the supply so that they can manage the pricing. Then a mfr. either gets too large or they loose a bit of control. And then the dealers start to discount their product.

This is a business progression that happens to all mfrs. eventually. And it is scary to them. You will see the same thing happen to NightForce. It is just a matter of time. It happens to every mfr eventually. Unless they just stay small and with a very limited supply chain. Tom.

 

[Nomo4me]

I think I fall in a fairly large subset of shooters who want quality glass and repeatable tracking but for whom the purchase of a Sightron SIII represents a financial stretch.
I'd love to own Nightforce but I don't compete and my guns amount to very high $$$ plinkers.
I've bought 4 SIII's recently, 2 of them second hand. They work great for my needs. If down the road I begin to read that they are winning in matches I'll like them that much more

 

[LarryDScott]

First off. If your cost is $800. And you make $200 in profit then your profit margin or return on investment is 25%. Not 20%.

Fixed pricing of products is bad business IMO. And I have been in retail and wholesale sales all my life.

If inventory is really short then you do not see dealers sell for MSRP, they will sell it for more than MSRP if they can get it. So why shouldn't a consumer buy it for less if he can. A prime example of this is primers. If a dealer sells primers for a price higher than MSRP, are they gouging?? Should that dealer be punished by the mfr.?? You can not have it both ways.

The manufacturer sets a pricing structure for one reason and one reason only. To create a chain for their product to be sold. It is easy for a mfr. to sell his product to a dealer who is making a good profit margin. Or to a dealer who is making a mark on return. So the mfr. tries to control the supply so that they can manage the pricing. Then a mfr. either gets too large or they loose a bit of control. And then the dealers start to discount their product.

This is a business progression that happens to all mfrs. eventually. And it is scary to them. You will see the same thing happen to NightForce. It is just a matter of time. It happens to every mfr eventually. Unless they just stay small and with a very limited supply chain. Tom.

I thought about handling NF and even got their dealers price list, but when I contacted a large quanity buying dealer on one of the gunboards, and got him to give me his selling price. He was nearly 150.00 less than suggested list. Well so much for the worth of mandatory published prices. If a dealer is going to buy to get the max discount, publish it at MSRP, then in reality whorehouse sell, it doesn't look like the MFG is controling things very well. Larry @"GREAT SCOTT" shooters products in western Ky.

 

[dlong]

My local go to guy, NJFG, told me in order to become a Nightforce dealer, they want an 80k per year commitment.....and thats cost. I would guess that 80Kcommitment gets you a bigger discount off list.

 

[LarryDScott]

That may have been when he became a NF dealer, but not today. NF only has two discount tiers, neither of which I will discuss. The divulging of dealer pricing by anyone, and in paticular by a lic dealer in my opinion is unethical. The fact that someone reported that Sightron told them what dealears cost was, is about as sorry a Business pratice on the part of the company as can be imagined. Sightron might as well sell direct to every consumer, because their maketing and direct buy dealers, plus the whorehouse sellers who buy from distributors outlets have trashed their sales potential. I have 2 SIII 10-50s w/dot that can be had very reasonable, and after that I will not stock any Sightron scopes. I will discuss their sale by email only. Larry in western Ky @"GREAT SCOTT" shooters products

 

[dlong]

NJFG never became a Nightforce dealer. They passed. They sell mostly Leupold and some Zeiss. They realize most people buy scopes on the net and its not worth if for them to bother with many scopes. Probably a wise choice. They sell a boat load of guns.

 

[McKinneyMike]

Your right. I was going off MSRP of $1000 with $200 profit margins. Still 25% isn't squat on a specialty item with limited sales for a retail business to survive.

 

[dlong]

Who really cares what cost is. Its no big secret. I dont know for sure, but if I had to guess, I would say that Nightforces 2 discount tiers are 50% off list and maybe 40% off list. If its anything like the business I'm in, that would be typical. Now clothing, furniture and jewelry is a whole different animal, here markups are 4 to 8 times. That $40.00 underarmour cold steal undershirt you wear for hunting.....cost is about $5.00 delivered to underarmour from china or the dominican.

 

[HEAD0001]

Still 25% isn't squat on a specialty item with limited sales for a retail business to survive.

I have to disagree with you on this one. I worked in the hunting business for many years. Both retail and wholesale. There are very few(if any) retail hunting shops who average a 25% markup on any high priced item(lets say items over $200). It just does not happen. I know many small business gun shops that make a good living off of a 10%-15% markup on all their big ticket items. And alot of them work on 5%-10% markups.

If these guys would have averaged 20%-25% on all their big ticket sales they would have retired years ago. And a Sightron 10-50X definitely meets the big ticket requirement.

I realize alot of them have went out of business. But the vast majority of the ones I watched go out of business was due to poor management, bad inventory decisions, and trying to compete with mass merchant stores-instead of working around big merchant stores. I know a few guys who have made a lot of money by putting a hunting store right next door to WalMart. They just simply stocked what WalMart didn't. No better way in the world to get customers to your store front than being next to WalMart. It is what you do with those customers that determines whether you make it or not. Tom.

 

[McKinneyMike]

I am glad that I do not have to work on those slim margins. You would have to sell $5000.00 a day just to pay the bills in a small shop and that would be tough. Been there done that. Not going back. Better ways to make a living.

 

[LarryDScott]

There are many buyers who want you in business, but only when they cant find it someplace else for less money. Its OK for you to make a profit off of all other customers, just as long as I can get mine for 0 markup. The people that are more finanacially able, seem to be more prominent in this thinking.
Then there are the buyers, who regardless of your asking price, its always to high. If you are making money you are GOUGING. These people have to feel like they have stolen the item from you, to be happy with their purchase.
Personally, I like to deal w/the person who says one thing, "I'll take it". Larry @"GREAT SCOTT" shooters products in western Ky.

 

[McKinneyMike]

When I was in business the people that I had the most issues with were those that tried their damnedest to beat me down on price. Everything had to be perfect and the price had to be cheap. I sincerely do not miss those people ;D I do miss the many good friends that I made. Some never spent a great deal of money, but they were good people. Made me happy to be there to help them out.

 

[Taildrag15X]

gunamonth,

"Dealer cost (small dealer, quantity of one) for a Leupold Competition series is $919. They're readily available for $995 from a variety of places on the Internet. I just bought one for $932 plus $12 shipping from one that was running a special. I'd like to see whatever profit there is to go to my local dealer but... At $919 plus $10 for shipping to him plus 6% sales tax puts his price at $985. If he doesn't make a penny it would still cost me an extra $41."

I checked with my local guy just now, I can still get the 45X45 Comp. Leupold for $815 + State Tax and no shipping if I wait until he orders. I asked his mark up on this, he hated to say he was making 10% on me, so his cost is around $725-$750.

 

[dlong]

Many products pass through many hands before it gets to the consumer. You keep talking about the distributor but everyone fails to mention the manufacturers rep. He is the guy that gets his 5 to 7% on all the product sold in his territory. I live in North Jersey. So I called Leupold and Sightron direct to find out who the local manufacturers rep was and they gave me the name and number. Now hoping these guys would be whores, I called them both to see if I could buy a scope direct or if they had any trunk show specials. Both guys very nicely said no. Once in a while you will find a rep who will sell direct. I have on occasion in other industries, mainly furniture. I got some fantastic deals on stuff at a fraction of the normal cost. Are these guys supposed to do that?? No, probably not, but hey, I love a good whore now and then. If I guy is willing to sell to me direct either a show model or new, hey, I'm in. Why should I pay $600.00 for a kitchen chair when the rep will sell it to me for $200.00 and the distributor wants $450.00. I do what ever I can within reason to save money on large purchases. If you look hard enough, Leupold scopes can be had for 38% off list. All my past Leupold and Zeiss scope purchases were for 38% off list. It takes time and phone calls and luck. I just got a surefire X400 light and laser for my new glock 17. all over the internet the average price was $460.00. Ebay had a few buy it nows for around $360.00. I got it for $300.00 and I'm sure the guy I bought if from made money. I dont know about you guys, but I work hard for my money and I want to keep as much of it as I can.

You guys can call me an A-hole all you want. But I'm the guy with the extra $100.00 in his pocket. I'm gonna need it anyway, since I'm sitting here waiting for the appliance repair guy to show up to bend me over to fix my refrigerator which is on the fritz. I'm the guy who has to pay someone to do stuff like appliance repairs and auto repairs , so I got to make up that money somewhere..

 

[Taildrag15X]

I wish I was the guy you called for the Frig., I haven't screwed anyone in years......it was really only once and I was hungover when the call came in that Sunday morning at 6, to hear him tell me it's been actin' up since Wed. so he got it.

I think you buy more stuff so that you can afford more things to break!

 

[snowpro440]

I dont get on this site too much but larry sure does cry alot on here ... he should go back to selling sightrons an forget about what others are making on the scopes... I am all in favor of getting a deals on stuff ....

 

[MOTORSPORTS55]

is sightron send out sun shades for the new scopes that did not come with them ? i was told that the latest scopes come with ?

 

[LarryDScott]

I'm not crying, Just stating facts. The SIGHTRON scope market has been trashed. You want a dealer on here so you can get good deals. I was here and look what it got me??? Really what you want is someone who is going to stock your toys, make it available on demand, answer all your questions, but heavens this guy better not think of making a profit or we will buy from someone else and leave him holding the bag. Sorry, I'm not playing the game anymore. Larry in western Ky.