Sierra .30 CALIBER/7.62MM 169 GR. HPBT MATCH

[rox]

I do not doubt that. There can be significant differences between brands and styles, etc, but my point was meant toward comparing what appears to be the same bullet, just one grain heavier. Shape can make a difference, but one grain difference is going to have to "show me".

I've no doubt that that the 1 grain difference is merely to distinguish it in the product line from the 168 MK, rather like Berger, who added just half a grain to make the 155.5 - constrained by an 'under 156 grain' rule for International Palma competitions. Sierra have two 155 grain .30 cal HPBTs both of which have carried the 'Palma' name, so we have to refer to them by product part numbers to distinguish them. There might also be an element of avoiding calling it a 168, because so many shooters incorrectly associate that number with bad long-range performance, transonic instability, keyholing the target, spraying the berm etc etc, when it's actually the design of the bullet that makes it in-appropriate for longer distances, not the weight itself.

 

[Laurie]

There might also be an element of avoiding calling it a 168, because so many shooters incorrectly associate that number with bad long-range performance, transonic instability, keyholing the target, spraying the berm etc etc, when it's actually the design of the bullet that makes it in-appropriate for longer distances, not the weight itself.

Just so! When the 308 168 Berger Hybrid was introduced and I started using it, I had to explain my choice over and over again to people who had got it into their heads that there was something intrinsically wrong with 168gn weight in the calibre. I'm sure that take-up of the bullet was lower than it might otherwise have been because of this factor. In any event, the F/TR trend in bullet choice has been a steady drift towards heavier models more or less settling on 200gn models. In my final years in F/TR I went the other way returning to the 155.5 Berger BT Fullbore and complementing it with the 168 Hybrid.

 

[Straightshooter1]

While I'm not a pessimist or a cynic, I am a skeptic and there's one way I'm sure to find out if they're "all that." So, I ordered 500 and we'll see (whenever they manage to get them shipped, that is).

Well . . . just received an email from Sierra informing me they can't fulfill my order and have refunded me my payment.

 

[rijndael]

Mine was refunded as well.

 

[Straightshooter1]

When I didn't get my order from Sierra, I saw the Midway some available but limited to 2 boxes of 100. So, I ordered the limit and just got them today and will be getting some loaded up to fire this weekend. I just finished measuring them to get an idea how I want to go about loading them. Here's some number's I came up with. . .

Bullet Length: 1.301
BTO: .650
Boat Tail: .168
Bearing Surface: .483

Compare that to my 168's . . .

Bullet Length: 1.214
BTO: .617
Boat Tail: .144
Bearing Surface: .453

The 169 SMK meplat is definitely smaller than the 168's (see pic: top row are 168's and bottom row are the 169's)

 

[Kracken McGraw]

Well . . . just received an email from Sierra informing me they can't fulfill my order and have refunded me my payment.

What was Sierra’s reason for not fulfilling the order?

 

[rijndael]

What was Sierra’s reason for not fulfilling the order?

Mine was:

We are unable to fill your order in a timely manner, so we are refunding the order at this time. Sorry for any inconvenience this may have caused. We do appreciate your business. Thanks for your understanding.

I would have appreciated them asking if I was willing to wait, because I am. I took around a week to get the refund posted to my credit card.

 

[karrarararararar]

Mine was:

We are unable to fill your order in a timely manner, so we are refunding the order at this time. Sorry for any inconvenience this may have caused. We do appreciate your business. Thanks for your understanding.

I would have appreciated them asking if I was willing to wait, because I am. I took around a week to get the refund posted to my credit card.

I got the same email

 

[Straightshooter1]

What was Sierra’s reason for not fulfilling the order?

. . . same as mentioned above.

Now, it's puzzling why Sierra doesn't show this bullet on their website any longer, not even as being "sold out". Hmmm???

 

[Monte F]

Just ordered 200 from Midway, arriving next Wed. Wanting to see how well they shoot at 600 and 1000.

 

[WVRJ]

It may be hard to believe, but I've shot the Berger 168 Hybrid for years, and believe me, it IS waaaay better than the 168 SMK. The 168 Hybrid does not suffer the boattail angle issues that plague the 168 SMK past 700-800 yd. It's also one of the few .30 cal bullets I'm aware of that has a high enough BC that it can provide equal or better performance than the next higher weight class of bullets (175s-185s) due to the higher velocity attainable with the lighter bullet. Because of its relatively high BC for its weight, the 168 Hybrid can be pushed fast enough with the appropriate length barrel to overcome the BC deficit as compared to something like a 185 Juggernaut. That can be useful feature to individuals with rifle that are not throated long enough to load 185+ gr bullets optimally.

This new 169 SMK looks to be on par ballistically with the 168 Hybrid, and has a BC that is approximately 14% higher than the 168 SMK; a sizable increase. Of course, some fraction of that increase would be due to the fact that the 169s are pointed at the factory, whereas the 168 SMKs are not. The 169 SMK might even be more forgiving with regard to seating depth than the 168 Hybrid because of the tangent ogive. With the assumption that they can be loaded to equal precision as the 168 SMK, I can't imagine why anyone that shoots 168 SMKs wouldn't give them a try.

I've found the Berger hybrids to be about the best 168 there is in 308.Both of my heavy barrel 308 rifles shoot them well.One is a 10 twist and the other is a 12.But,I almost always begin load development with SMK's because they are so forgiving as far as overall length goes.I've found this to be true in most calibers.The newer designs like the ELD,VLD,RDF,and other high BC designs can be harder to get tuned,especially if you're wanting to shoot at mag length.There's always a tradeoff.

 

[AckleymanII]

Well . . . just received an email from Sierra informing me they can't fulfill my order and have refunded me my payment.

Mine and one of my brothers were refunded also, Youngest brother got 1500...lucky dog. I have some of his. This is a very streamlined version of the 168g MK, and one heck of an improvement from the looks!

I just got off the phone with Sierra, they will not take a back order....dang!

 

[Jdne5b]

In stock at Creedmoor sports as of a few hours ago.

 

[Straightshooter1]

So, did a little load development with these 169 SMKs at the range this morning using IMR-4064. 10 rounds fired over my MagnetoSpeed using 42.8 grains to establish a velocity and confirm the burn rate in my QuickLoad app. Average velocity of 2681 fps was right at what QL calculated. Then, fired a ladder of 3 rounds for each load with 2 grain increments starting at 42.8 and ending on 43.8. Looks like I found a nice node at 43.0 - 43.2 grs.

I tried to seat the bullet's base as close to the same seating depth as I do with my 168 SMKs so that the case volume is the same as that's where the accuracy is for the 168. Because the 169 SMK is quite a bit longer, the COAL came to 2.929, which is .011 off my current lands (a nice distance from the lands that my gun tend to like).

Since I got a nice group using 43.6 grs, I might try and verify whether or not that's a good load too. Now that I've found a good load of 4064, which I have plenty of, I want to find a good load with H4895.





PS: That temp of 68°F shown on paper is wrong, it was 48°F.

 

[rijndael]

Looks like I found a nice node at 43.0 - 43.2 grs.

Are you good with that small of a window? With 4064, my best loads tend to have .5 grain windows.

I would retest that, and see if the opened up group at 43.4 was a fluke. If it was, it's 43 through 43.6, which is much more reasonable window.

 

[Straightshooter1]

Are you good with that small of a window? With 4064, my best loads tend to have .5 grain windows.

I would retest that, and see if the opened up group at 43.4 was a fluke. If it was, it's 43 through 43.6, which is much more reasonable.

A larger window is preferred, of course. And I was actually thinking the same thing about that 43.4 load given the result of the 43.6 load. You've reinforced my thinking, so I'll definitely give it a go. Thanks.

 

[rijndael]

I'm glad to help, keep us posted, please.

 

[D-4297]

Personally ; I'd be staying at the 43gr load for this time of year , simply because the load is only going to gain speed as the weather warms up . I'd rather have slight horizontal , than any show of vertical . But I'll reiterate my thought on warmer temps coming , and speed up in velocity . I shoot a 185 OTM at 45.5gr of 4064 in Az now ( high 40's - mid 50's ) , and get a avg. of MV of 2660fps . And I know I'll be dropping that load next month , by at least 3 to 4 tenths .

 

[Straightshooter1]

For those who've been waiting for theses to become available again and haven't seen them yet, their now available at several sources:

https://www.midsouthshooterssupply....er-169-grain-hp-boat-tail-matchking-100-count

 

[WVRJ]

Midway had the 169's in stock and I ordered a hundred from them about two weeks ago.I shot them in 2 different 308's this past weekend and got very good results at 100 yards.Velocity and POI were identical to the 168 at 100 yards and accuracy was too close to call.I ordered 200 more last night because Midway had them on clearance.I wonder why they would be clearing them out?I am hoping to see how they do at 1,000 sometime in the next few days,but I'm wondering if they're already discontinued.