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Sierra .30 CALIBER/7.62MM 169 GR. HPBT MATCH

LVLAaron

Gold $$ Contributor

This bullet was designed with one thing in mind, and that was to shoot 1000 yards in a 308 Winchester. To accomplish that, we added length to the boattail and engineered a forgiving tangent ogive with a closed nose. Doing this gave it a .527 BC which keeps it super sonic past 1000 yards in a 308 chamber. This bullet is basically a redesign of the legendary 168MK which we will continue to manufacture. Anyone that enjoys shooting medium to long range with a 308 or even the big magnums will love this bullet.
 
The 169 SMK improves an issue with the 168 that occurs near transonic and below. The extra grain makes it easy to sort them out if they get mingled.
If you liked the 168, you will also like the 169, especially if you go out past 800 yards near sea level.
 
I don't mean to sound pessimistic, but to believe that a 169 is waaaay better than a 168 makes my eyes want to roll.
It may be hard to believe, but I've shot the Berger 168 Hybrid for years, and believe me, it IS waaaay better than the 168 SMK. The 168 Hybrid does not suffer the boattail angle issues that plague the 168 SMK past 700-800 yd. It's also one of the few .30 cal bullets I'm aware of that has a high enough BC that it can provide equal or better performance than the next higher weight class of bullets (175s-185s) due to the higher velocity attainable with the lighter bullet. Because of its relatively high BC for its weight, the 168 Hybrid can be pushed fast enough with the appropriate length barrel to overcome the BC deficit as compared to something like a 185 Juggernaut. That can be useful feature to individuals with rifle that are not throated long enough to load 185+ gr bullets optimally.

This new 169 SMK looks to be on par ballistically with the 168 Hybrid, and has a BC that is approximately 14% higher than the 168 SMK; a sizable increase. Of course, some fraction of that increase would be due to the fact that the 169s are pointed at the factory, whereas the 168 SMKs are not. The 169 SMK might even be more forgiving with regard to seating depth than the 168 Hybrid because of the tangent ogive. With the assumption that they can be loaded to equal precision as the 168 SMK, I can't imagine why anyone that shoots 168 SMKs wouldn't give them a try.
 
Does anyone have an overall length of this bullet? Bearing surface, Tip to bearing surface or base to bearing surface? Sierra hasn’t published on their 169 bullet info page. Thanks
 
It may be hard to believe, but I've shot the Berger 168 Hybrid for years, and believe me, it IS waaaay better than the 168 SMK. The 168 Hybrid does not suffer the boattail angle issues that plague the 168 SMK past 700-800 yd. It's also one of the few .30 cal bullets I'm aware of that has a high enough BC that it can provide equal or better performance than the next higher weight class of bullets (175s-185s) due to the higher velocity attainable with the lighter bullet.

Agree completely. I'm another fan of the 168 Hybrid and had some excellent 1,000 yard results with them in my F/TR days.

I don't mean to sound pessimistic, but to believe that a 169 is waaaay better than a 168 makes my eyes want to roll.

Bullet weight only partly determines outcomes, 'form' (shape) being just as important if not more so to performance. The 168gn 308 SMK dates from Sierra Bullets early days in the 1960s back when 30-06 was still a widely used match cartridge and 308 Win was the new kid on the block. With 30s the primary competition cartridges of the era and distances short, the 168gn Sierra 'International' as it was originally called was designed to be a winner in 300 metre competition which it was in a very big way. As Sierra points out, its abilities at 600 yards or so are way above its original design specifications.

Nevertheless, this old stager is a short range bullet and in a era when competition distances have more than doubled and activities like long-range gong shooting have become popular, the demand for more ballistically efficient designs has soared. Sierra has been steadily introducing longer, lower drag designs often keeping weights as per older models. (For instance, the current meplat-pointed 6.5mm 123gn SMK is a VERY different animal from the pre-pointing version with a shorter bearing surface and longer nose section without Sierra having announced any changes as far as I can see.) At the same time, new models such as the TMKs have kept old HPBT MK weights, but aren't the same bullets with a 'plastic' tip, 155gn 308 and 77gn 224 models aside.

So, I for one have little trouble believing the new 169gn is far more ballistically capable than the 168. I'm pleased that the company has introduced this new design as many shooters like the bullet weight. It will no doubt cause a degree of confusion over gunshop counters at times, I'll bet.
 
I’ll be shooting them in a Bisley reamer, if it’ll help you, I can post up some data when I get mine worked up.
 
It may be hard to believe, but I've shot the Berger 168 Hybrid for years, and believe me, it IS waaaay better than the 168 SMK. The 168 Hybrid does not suffer the boattail angle issues that plague the 168 SMK past 700-800 yd. It's also one of the few .30 cal bullets I'm aware of that has a high enough BC that it can provide equal or better performance than the next higher weight class of bullets (175s-185s) due to the higher velocity attainable with the lighter bullet. Because of its relatively high BC for its weight, the 168 Hybrid can be pushed fast enough with the appropriate length barrel to overcome the BC deficit as compared to something like a 185 Juggernaut. That can be useful feature to individuals with rifle that are not throated long enough to load 185+ gr bullets optimally.

This new 169 SMK looks to be on par ballistically with the 168 Hybrid, and has a BC that is approximately 14% higher than the 168 SMK; a sizable increase. Of course, some fraction of that increase would be due to the fact that the 169s are pointed at the factory, whereas the 168 SMKs are not. The 169 SMK might even be more forgiving with regard to seating depth than the 168 Hybrid because of the tangent ogive. With the assumption that they can be loaded to equal precision as the 168 SMK, I can't imagine why anyone that shoots 168 SMKs wouldn't give them a try.
I do not doubt that. There can be significant differences between brands and styles, etc, but my point was meant toward comparing what appears to be the same bullet, just one grain heavier. Shape can make a difference, but one grain difference is going to have to "show me".
 
I do not doubt that. There can be significant differences between brands and styles, etc, but my point was meant toward comparing what appears to be the same bullet, just one grain heavier. Shape can make a difference, but one grain difference is going to have to "show me".
I understand. The one grain difference in weight is likely a small contributor to the increased BC, along with the 169s being pointed at the factory. The overall 14% increase in BC is significant, as is the change in the boattail angle. However, these factors may not still be a "night and day" difference. That is, unless someone was going to shoot these regularly past 700-800 yd, I'm sure the difference would be noticeable over time, but perhaps not in a single outing. Nonetheless, if it can be loaded to similar precision, the 169 is clearly an improvement over the 168, and the improvement is much more than just a single grain weight increase. From the little bit of pricing information I could find, it looks like the 169s will run about the same price as the 168s. I will probably give them a try in one of my rifles that is throated short, just to see how they compare to the 168 Hybrids. It will be interesting to see whether any commercial ammunition that is currently loaded with the 168 SMKs gets switched over to the 169s as time goes by.
 
Off topic, but how fast are you guys pushing the 168 Hybrid from a TR gun?
I've been running the 168 Hybrids over H4895 in Lapua Palma brass at ~2900 fps from a 30" barrel. I have an F-TR rifle still chambered with .085" freebore, which is perfect for the 168 Hybrids, and I suspect will work very well with this new 169 SMK. Juggernauts tuned in at around 2725 from that rifle, partly due to the relatively short freebore, and the 168s will actually outperform the Juggernauts in that particular setup due to the higher velocity attainable. You really want a 30" barrel to push the 168s that fast. I have another rifle chambered with the same reamer, but that only has a 28" barrel, and the load I worked up with the 168 Hybrids came in at ~2820 fps. I'm suspect I could have hit the 2900 fps region (node) using Lapua Palma brass, but predicted pressures were higher than I like to run in matches, and brass life might have been shortened because of it. I will likely give the 169 SMKs a try in the 30" barrel rifle and see how they shoot. My guess is that with the tangent ogive, they ought to be fairly forgiving to tune, and a one grain difference in weight shouldn't have much of an impact on velocity in a tuned load, maybe around 10 fps. In my hands, the 168s were simply a means to keep using those rifles in [local] F-TR competitions and remain competitive, without having to re-barrel them with a much longer freebore chamber to shoot 200+ gr bullets. Even at 2900 fps, the 168s are giving up some windage to the heavier bullets, but the loads I worked up with the Hybrids were stupidly accurate/precise, and fun to use in matches as a change from 200s.
 
Agree completely. I'm another fan of the 168 Hybrid and had some excellent 1,000 yard results with them in my F/TR days.



Bullet weight only partly determines outcomes, 'form' (shape) being just as important if not more so to performance. The 168gn 308 SMK dates from Sierra Bullets early days in the 1960s back when 30-06 was still a widely used match cartridge and 308 Win was the new kid on the block. With 30s the primary competition cartridges of the era and distances short, the 168gn Sierra 'International' as it was originally called was designed to be a winner in 300 metre competition which it was in a very big way. As Sierra points out, its abilities at 600 yards or so are way above its original design specifications.

Nevertheless, this old stager is a short range bullet and in a era when competition distances have more than doubled and activities like long-range gong shooting have become popular, the demand for more ballistically efficient designs has soared. Sierra has been steadily introducing longer, lower drag designs often keeping weights as per older models. (For instance, the current meplat-pointed 6.5mm 123gn SMK is a VERY different animal from the pre-pointing version with a shorter bearing surface and longer nose section without Sierra having announced any changes as far as I can see.) At the same time, new models such as the TMKs have kept old HPBT MK weights, but aren't the same bullets with a 'plastic' tip, 155gn 308 and 77gn 224 models aside.

So, I for one have little trouble believing the new 169gn is far more ballistically capable than the 168. I'm pleased that the company has introduced this new design as many shooters like the bullet weight. It will no doubt cause a degree of confusion over gunshop counters at times, I'll bet.
Laurie - a lot will hinge on the actual BC of the new 169 bullet. If it measures up to the reported value, a 14% increase in BC over the old 168 SMK is substantial. I would estimate that somewhere around 4% of that increase would be the result of pointing the bullets at the factory. Nonetheless, even a 10% increase in BC would be significant, especially at 800-1000 yd. If nothing else, it would be satisfying not to see 168 SMKs going sideways through the target board at 1000 yd. It seems like someone almost always brings a 168 SMK load to a 1000 yd match. ;)
 

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