is there a setting you have to set to allow this? So far, each time I've seen someone change the caliber, it did it for all targets currently linked. Curious if there's a way to do it without changing others.
ShotMarker
- Thread starter sfinn1
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ttfreestyle
Silver $$ Contributor
This is my experience as well at our range. All of the targets stay paired to each other. You have every guy changing their caliber so no telling which caliber we end up on for each relay.
It can make a difference from time to time. Yesterday at 600, a TR shooter hadn’t changed our default 7mm in the first match.
Once it was corrected to .308, shot 7 became a “10” on ShotMarker instead of a 9 with a .284 setting.
Once it was corrected to .308, shot 7 became a “10” on ShotMarker instead of a 9 with a .284 setting.
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I originally thought that all targets were changed to the same caliber. This thread got me investigating. After fiddling around a bit I discovered that you CAN have different targets with different calibers.
The access point menu sets the default caliber (or "global" setting), but if you go to the target face menu [LR (800-1000), MR-1 (600), etc.] on the top right you can change the caliber for that specific target. Setting security mode to low will remove everyone's access to change the default caliber settings, but leave them able to change the caliber for the target face. If you modify the default caliber on a face, it'll remain even if you change the default setting.
Not sure if this makes sense or helps, but thought I'd share with everyone.
*Edit to add: Once you save a target with a caliber that was modified from the default/global, the target resets the the default caliber for the next shooter. Just tried this in "shot simulator" mode.
The access point menu sets the default caliber (or "global" setting), but if you go to the target face menu [LR (800-1000), MR-1 (600), etc.] on the top right you can change the caliber for that specific target. Setting security mode to low will remove everyone's access to change the default caliber settings, but leave them able to change the caliber for the target face. If you modify the default caliber on a face, it'll remain even if you change the default setting.
Not sure if this makes sense or helps, but thought I'd share with everyone.
*Edit to add: Once you save a target with a caliber that was modified from the default/global, the target resets the the default caliber for the next shooter. Just tried this in "shot simulator" mode.
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Russ made a change to the guys tablet next to me the other day from inch group to MOA and it changed everyone's tablet to that also. So I dont know if each person can individually change the bullet size default on his or her tablet and it not affect all of them. I did have him change my target to the IBS style from the standard type the tablets have, but not sure what settings can or can't be changed without affecting other tablets.
Well, I was wrong in my thought that all targets had to be same caliber (see above post), so I could be wrong again, but I think changing the grid (off, 1 moa, 0.2 mil, 1 inch), velocity (off, fps, m/s), stats (off, score, inch, mm, moa, mil), shots (all, recent, delayed, restricted, disabled), sighters (none, one, two, two convertible, unlimited) and target row (hide, show, show & highlight) ultimately changes it for all targets at the same time. Caliber has been the only one I've found a way to be able to change for each separate target.
If others have seen ways to make independent changes on these settings, I'd love to hear the instructions.
Yes, and that is where the problem lies. I found most shooters, even some who own shotmarkers, do not understand that there are two ways to change calibers. The Administrative needs to have security set or there can be problems and not just with caliber.
It sure is great when you get it worked out, though. As we do more and more matches with them, we have more and more people that can help others when they need to do things with the tablets. Here we are setting up the evening before for yesterday's 1,000 yd match.
LVLAaron
Gold $$ Contributor
Tolerance stacking. It makes a difference. I'd rather the target be .5mm deviant vs 1mm deviant.
I have never liked carrying targets around. At my local club, the targets have been housed below ground at pit level, but are shot at ground level. We shoot year round, and the pits are prone to flooding, to mud, and the housing to wasps and target damage. Even in perfect weather, it’s a hike up stairs and maybe 150 feet to the furthest “stand”. I set up and take down, which is the safest most appreciated way for a match director to do it, but it was requiring a longish drive the day before, to ensure a smooth morning match. So, enough of that, I bought and modified this small trailer.
We were early converts to etargets, and the 4”x4” sunken post system at the base of the berm that massive targets (1539 mm microphone spacing, square, much bigger than these) were clamped to, have long-since started tilting, bending and generally been shot up in the other 30 days of the month, over the last 4 or 5 years. Foliage on the ground was a constant issue.
The targets above are easily big enough to capture all shots. Midrange target rings are simply bigger than we need in FClass and that’s all we attract. We have never struck a sensor hub, suspended above them.
So, crosstalk has been the concern with these, since the beginning. But fortunately I’m not seeing any, in early testing yesterday. For most matches, 2 or 3 targets is all we need.
The idea here is to modify a utility trailer which will become both a stable base to affix the targets to, and the transportation and storage of the targets, back to a garage, where they will not be eaten or grow mildew. The total distance any target moves is 4 feet and set up is as fast as it looks.
That run of flat steel is 1” thick, about 3” tall, and perfect to C clamp the frames to.
Obviously, you don’t want your trailer shot up as if it’s just the rail holding up targets in a silhouette match, But I don’t think that will happen. I’ll put a test gong nearby.
On our SMT now SM systems the system is left at .308 for all shooters. The only time we changed the plug size was we would go back and rerun it with the correct plug size if it involved a national record or if its a big match and it is a tie for a match win or something. In 6 years only 1 time did putting the actual plug size in change the score.
Per rules you probably should use the correct caliber for each shooter, however neither system allows that. Well the SMT does but its arcane on how to get it to work and nobody (save Lodi I believe) actually uses the feature where shooters log in.
As far as the question yes changing it on one system changes it for everyone as it is universal setting.
Like I said we've always used .308 in our SMT system and will leave the SM system set at .308.
Per rules you probably should use the correct caliber for each shooter, however neither system allows that. Well the SMT does but its arcane on how to get it to work and nobody (save Lodi I believe) actually uses the feature where shooters log in.
As far as the question yes changing it on one system changes it for everyone as it is universal setting.
Like I said we've always used .308 in our SMT system and will leave the SM system set at .308.
F Class John
NRA Life Member
You can do it on Shotmarker too, and yes it's also a PIA, and probably among the several reasons almost nobody does it.
Ned Ludd
Silver $$ Contributor
Although it may be a PITA, it should be done. My comment isn't aimed at you in any way John, quoting your previous comment simply provided a starting place for mine. The whole point of using e-targets in F-Class is to facilitate scoring, not to change it as compared with pulled targets. The size of the bullet hole can matter, so each competitor should be using the correct bullet hole size for the load they are shooting. If a single bullet hole size is prescribed for all competitors, those using a larger caliber bullet will be penalized, and those using a smaller caliber bullet will be rewarded. The target system should not be penalizing or rewarding any competitor, and the NRA should step up and make this a requirement for e-targets used in F-Class and other matches, regardless of how much of a PITA it may be.
Yeah, that saying “there is no free lunch” isn’t true if guys get to supersize their combo for the price of regular size. None of it is possible though, if you see a padlock in the upper left screen.
I’m assuming most are aware, but just to confirm to the new users, once you save the target under your initials, you can go to the file and reopen it, at that time, change your caliber. It will tell you that you are about to change a saved target, and you acknowledge that, then it internally resizes your bullet holes and if needed, alters the scores, or you can ask the director, if locked out.
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Ned,
By using the .308 plug essentially it is the old .30cal plug rule where on manual targets everyone got a .30cal plug for scoring on manual targets. As far as those using larger, we only have one guy using something larger than a .30cal (he shoots a 338 LM, and he doesn't complain and he's a pretty high level shooter). So other than that one shooter nobody is getting a disadvantage. As far as those shooting smaller cartridges yes there are but from our experience when I'd go back and reload them with correct plug size it rarely changed anything.
Now I will ask you this. How is giving everyone a .30cal plug on ETs any different than the people who shoot a shot that is really close to the line on manual targets. The guys pulling jam the spotter in, enlarging the hole. Shooter challenges the shot, shot spotter is pulled and given the higher value because the enlarged hole now cuts the line?
Shooting ET's is different than manual it does change the game, BUT everyone at that match is playing by the same rules. As I said with NR's I would plug with correct holes.
By using the .308 plug essentially it is the old .30cal plug rule where on manual targets everyone got a .30cal plug for scoring on manual targets. As far as those using larger, we only have one guy using something larger than a .30cal (he shoots a 338 LM, and he doesn't complain and he's a pretty high level shooter). So other than that one shooter nobody is getting a disadvantage. As far as those shooting smaller cartridges yes there are but from our experience when I'd go back and reload them with correct plug size it rarely changed anything.
Now I will ask you this. How is giving everyone a .30cal plug on ETs any different than the people who shoot a shot that is really close to the line on manual targets. The guys pulling jam the spotter in, enlarging the hole. Shooter challenges the shot, shot spotter is pulled and given the higher value because the enlarged hole now cuts the line?
Shooting ET's is different than manual it does change the game, BUT everyone at that match is playing by the same rules. As I said with NR's I would plug with correct holes.
DR_2297
Silver $$ Contributor
Since you are tangent scored you should be setting your target to whatever caliber you are using. Thst is how I run the systems at matches i officiate. This is also how most if not every range using SM in Michigan officiate.
CMP does not have a “30 cal rule”. The KTS system has 308 or 224 options and that needs to be expanded with the addition of MR, LR and match rifles shooting things other than 223, 308 and ‘06. As range & pit officials we are given overlays (there are no plugs to be used as if destroys hole integrity) and there are various sizes… tangent to is tangent to based on hole in paper. A .224 hole .037 off the white scoring ring isn’t punched to .308 and scored the next higher value…
CMP does not have a “30 cal rule”. The KTS system has 308 or 224 options and that needs to be expanded with the addition of MR, LR and match rifles shooting things other than 223, 308 and ‘06. As range & pit officials we are given overlays (there are no plugs to be used as if destroys hole integrity) and there are various sizes… tangent to is tangent to based on hole in paper. A .224 hole .037 off the white scoring ring isn’t punched to .308 and scored the next higher value…
Dave M.
F-Open Class shooter (284 win, 6dasher, 6.5-7PRCW)
That is BS. At our club shoots and official competitions we make everyone enter their bullet diameter. The way to force everyone to actually enter it, is to set the default to .223 instead of .308. Then I guarantee you that anyone that wants to win will make a special point to change the bullet diameter.
Dave.
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