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Service Rifle ?

Grumpy Guns

To be honest I hadn't been paying much attention to service rifle for the past several years as I didn't have equipment or localy convienent places to try it out, but that has change since I am going to be picking up some new toys in the near future and we are moving back out west. So I noticed the new rules regarding AR/M16's and it has raised some questions in my mind.

The main one is hand gaurds the new rule say's the use of quad rails or similar is allowed. This seems oddly vague, would this include the modern trend in free float keymod, Mlock style handgaurds or only the ones that attach in the A2/A4 style? With the mention of attachment of sling swivels it makes me think that they would be good.

Any input is greatly appreaciated.
 
Jeremy,
I haven't shot Service Rifle in a few years, so I'm not 100% up to speed on the details of the recent rule changes. But, I would suggest that if you haven't already, head over to this forum:

http://www.usrifleteams.com/forums/index.php?act=idx

It will be the place to get your question answered. I believe you will need to create an account to view topics, but it will be well worth your time. Good luck, and thanks for your service.

Erik
 
Erik thanks I hadn't run across that one before so glad you shared it. I will head over and see what they have to say.

Thanks Again
 
With optics everyone is going to the AR style hadnguard which will be free floated so you can get the proper eye relief with the scopes. All the "service" rifles are free floated. If it looks like an A2 it has a float tube. Jury is still out on scopes all the legal scopes don't have paralax adjustment. I figure in the next year there will be some that come out that will.

White Oak armament
http://www.whiteoakarmament.com/xcart/home.php?cat=310

Or Keystone Accuracy
http://www.keystoneaccuracy.com/a5keystoneopticssr.html

Are probably your best options.
 
Having made the transition from irons to a scope I can tell you the forend of an AR-15 doesn't really matter as long as it is free floated. A Keymod quad rail would not be an issue and certainly easier on your shooting glove than a Pickatenny. Eye relief in the various positions can be an issue with some scopes as your eye is at different distances from the sights with irons and unless you can comfortably shoot with one distance in all positions you need generous eye relief. Your cheek weld may be an issue with some scopes as well and a riser to move the visual axis of the scope up and the scope further forward may be necessary. Service Rifle legal scopes with adjustable parallax are not generally available yet, but that should change. Since I now only shoot 200 yds reduced it hasn't been a problem for me. Most scopes stop at 4X and not 4.5X, but there are a few out there if you need that little bit of extra mag. I use a 1" scope but a 30 mm one should also work but the scope will sit a little bit higher, and that may alter your cheek weld. An adjustable but stock will also help deal with different eye reliefs. People who have tried to mount a scope on top of the carry handle like the old Colt's have not had any success.
 
boltman13 said:
Having made the transition from irons to a scope I can tell you the forend of an AR-15 doesn't really matter as long as it is free floated. A Keymod quad rail would not be an issue and certainly easier on your shooting glove than a Pickatenny. Eye relief in the various positions can be an issue with some scopes as your eye is at different distances from the sights with irons and unless you can comfortably shoot with one distance in all positions you need generous eye relief. Your cheek weld may be an issue with some scopes as well and a riser to move the visual axis of the scope up and the scope further forward may be necessary. Service Rifle legal scopes with adjustable parallax are not generally available yet, but that should change. Since I now only shoot 200 yds reduced it hasn't been a problem for me. Most scopes stop at 4X and not 4.5X, but there are a few out there if you need that little bit of extra mag. I use a 1" scope but a 30 mm one should also work but the scope will sit a little bit higher, and that may alter your cheek weld. An adjustable but stock will also help deal with different eye reliefs. People who have tried to mount a scope on top of the carry handle like the old Colt's have not had any success.
Click to expand...
I have been experimenting with shooting an AR Match rifle with a scope in XTC. The biggest problem is that the scope must be in the proper axial position for each shooting position without compromising the shooting position. I solved that problem with an extended rail and the Bobro extended scope mount. I move the scope to a different axial position for each shooting position. Then it takes an adjustable cheek piece to get the eye in the proper vertical position, again a different adjustment for each position. It takes a lot of book keeping to keep up with all the match rifle and scope adjustments but it sure is fun to shoot a match when it becomes a shooting contest and not a seeing contest. I have been shooting the M14 for 35 years so I can tell you a lot about the seeing contest. I have made some other posts on this subject on this forum and have written a short paper on this subject that I have shared with some folks, if you would like to have a copy of the paper let me know and I will email it to you.
 
Your post was relative to the Service Rifle. My reply above dealt with what it takes to make XTC work with a scope on a match rifle. You have much less to work with on the Service Rifle although the NRA and CMP have made significant changes in the definition of a Service Rifle. So maybe it can be done but.....
 
Thanks for the info.

I think alot of the eye relief issues brought on by positional changes can be addressed with the colapsable but stock. Last time I qualed on the range I had an M4 and adjusted the stock as I went thru the course of fire to maintain relief with the ACOG. The new rules do say you are allowed to adjust the collapsable as you go. Shooting an A4 with an ACOG does get tiring with the A2 stock. For our aplication I will set it up with irons and teach the boys how to use them. I think they will get more out of it in the long run and there is a (INHO) a greater sence of accomplishment when you shoot well with them.

On the hand guard front sounds like it will just be easier to go with the A2 hand guard and a WOA tube, easier on the hands and it's not like you can shoot with Tacti Cool attatchments any way.
 
boltman13 said:
Having made the transition from irons to a scope I can tell you the forend of an AR-15 doesn't really matter as long as it is free floated. A Keymod quad rail would not be an issue and certainly easier on your shooting glove than a Pickatenny. Eye relief in the various positions can be an issue with some scopes as your eye is at different distances from the sights with irons and unless you can comfortably shoot with one distance in all positions you need generous eye relief. Your cheek weld may be an issue with some scopes as well and a riser to move the visual axis of the scope up and the scope further forward may be necessary. Service Rifle legal scopes with adjustable parallax are not generally available yet, but that should change. Since I now only shoot 200 yds reduced it hasn't been a problem for me. Most scopes stop at 4X and not 4.5X, but there are a few out there if you need that little bit of extra mag. I use a 1" scope but a 30 mm one should also work but the scope will sit a little bit higher, and that may alter your cheek weld. An adjustable but stock will also help deal with different eye reliefs. People who have tried to mount a scope on top of the carry handle like the old Colt's have not had any success.
Click to expand...

The March Scope available from Bullets.com has adjustable parallax. If you go the the website mentioned above you will see the scope issue is the biggest thread they have ever had.
 
Schmidt & Bender also make a scope with parallax adjustment. I can't afford either, but again I now shoot only reduced course High Power. A serious XC High Power shooter wanting to use a scope does have choices and probably more in the near future.
 
boltman13 said:
Schmidt & Bender also make a scope with parallax adjustment. I can't afford either, but again I now shoot only reduced course High Power. A serious XC High Power shooter wanting to use a scope does have choices and probably more in the near future.
Click to expand...

Is the S&B a 4.5X? Lots of folks make adjustable parallax, but don't have the other things that are needed for SR shooting.
 
I do not think that parallax is an issue with shooting a scope on a service rifle. You have a big target and other things are more important than parallax in this application. A 1X scope with parallax is an advantage over service rifle sights. Obviously is have exaggerated some, but not much, to make my point.
 
I'm interested to see if there's enough demand for a specialty scope to be made by the usual suspects (lookin' at you, Nightforce!) - 1-4.5x with adjustable parallax and a sane reticle for XTC shooting. That last part is important. The target black is big but you've got to be able to have a precise hold to shoot 10s/Xs and it has to work whether you're shooting offhand, rapids or prone at 600. Interesting design challenge. Maybe just a properly sized thick black ring. Not sure.
 
We were BS'ing after yesterday's HP match where all shooters used scopes about what would be the best scope for reduced and across the course HP. Our final conclusion was an illuminated reticle with a 1MOA dot in the center and a 5 MOA thin ring with small gaps at 3,6,9, and 12 o'clock. Intensity would need to be adjustable, high enough for very bright conditions and multi color would be a plus. We felt an adjustable outer ring to allow centering the black at all ranges would be even better but may not be possible. The small gaps are to make the shooter aware of cant of the rifle. What say you?
 
I think I'd like a solid thick ring with a thin horizontal cross bar (that does not extend inside the ring, but otherwise crosses the entire field of view). But I don't know. It's tough to really get a feel for it without seeing it. I'm also wondering if parallax is really an issue at 4x.
 
Has anyone gotten info about the new "Slide Stock" for the AR-15? I heard that is able to shoot accurately while simulating full auto.
 
Grumpy Guns said:
To be honest I hadn't been paying much attention to service rifle for the past several years as I didn't have equipment or localy convienent places to try it out, but that has change since I am going to be picking up some new toys in the near future and we are moving back out west. So I noticed the new rules regarding AR/M16's and it has raised some questions in my mind.

The main one is hand gaurds the new rule say's the use of quad rails or similar is allowed. This seems oddly vague, would this include the modern trend in free float keymod, Mlock style handgaurds or only the ones that attach in the A2/A4 style? With the mention of attachment of sling swivels it makes me think that they would be good.

Any input is greatly appreaciated.
Click to expand...


Go to the CMP website -

http://thecmp.org/competitions/service-rifle/
 
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