SEB Update

[seb]

Bob,

Yes, a counterweight can be retrofitted to your current rest. It's just a piece of metal/weight, attached to the center shaft (#13 in the exploded drawing).
But remember, the counterweight is/will only work if you use the rest in "up for up" mode.
If you use the rest in up for down mode, the weight must be placed on the handle/joystick side.
(If you notice, the joystick can be attached on either sides of the center shaft, therefore you can either use the rest in 'up for up' or 'up for down' mode).

A little story about the counterweight:
Paul Schmid (R.I.P.) & I invented the counterweight in 2008 when/after a customer asked a rest for his Heavy Gun. (We called it "balance weight system" or SEB "BWS" at that time). The function is, to balance the mechanism, for a specific gun weight on the rest top. We did some extensive experiments at that time and found that our old SEB rests could accept 60 lbs or more weight by using a counterweight and still maintain smooth action. We also found that, the old SEB rest can have a smoother action using a counterweight.
I'll try to attach a photo here....

Then in 2010, when I was designing a new rest (the NEO) and asking inputs/opinions on what people do not like with my old SEB rest, I found an 'alternative' to the counterweight, i.e. the internal built in uplift, which utilize a pair of leaf springs in the inside.
Personally I prefer the built in uplift (since it's 'more simple' & I don't have to bring/put more weight on the rest when shooting overseas & the fact that the action is quite smooth already), but Mike Ratigan & several others prefer a counterweight & remove the built in uplift / leaf springs inside. Yes, the rest works smoother/finer with a counterweight, also gives more uniform tension/force in all planes.
Both methods has their own +/- . If total weight is no concern for you, the use of counterweight is better/smoother.

We make various weights, for LV-HV gun 10.5-13.5 lbs, for LG/F-Class gun 16-22 lbs, etc.

Best,
seb.

 

[Bobr]

Seb,
Thanks for the explanation, and for making one well thought out and constructed machine.
Bob

 

[johara1]

Seb, If you look at the comp.forum at williamsport you will see that the Neo rest is legal if you remove the fore end stop and the level. The last time it was the the three bags now it's other. I can see their point,the fore end stop is the big one. You have to maintain the 1/2" clearance around the fore arm and with the stop in place you can't do it. do you make some thing to comply with the rules?......jim

 

[seb]

Johara,

My take is, IF the NEO is fully legal to use in competitions under some/almost all sanctioning bodies (WBSF/IBS/NBRSA, including the F-class & Rimfire) - it should/must be legal to use in other match (i.e. Williamsport PA) also.

Re: front bag(s).
If three pc bags is not allowed, the one pc bag will do the job.

Re: stopper & level.
The thing that holds the bag(s) is the retainers, not the stopper or the level. That's a separate thing & part.
When the NEO bag filled in moderate hardness (it's about 3/4" thick & over than 1-1/2" wide), the top of the bottom bag is more than 1/2" apart from the retainers.

From what I read in Williamsport website, the rule says (only) the stopper have to be removed. It doesn't mention a level device or its restriction at all, anyway.
IF that is the case, I don't think anyones can use a stopper, or can comply with the rule...re: the stopper.
It's not about how many inch the stopper must be apart etc anymore.

In addition, I make my rests to be legal to use in most competitions, not/never trying to "cheat?" the rules or so in mind. To me, rule is rule...whether it's good/logic or not.

seb.

 

[seb]

Update, August 21.

I made several changes to the NEO rest.
The new/improved rests have adjustable lever screws on the top/side plates assy, larger thumb nut on the joystick head, improved built-in uplift & clutch brake mechanism. These changes make the new rests even better than ever.
You can call the new rest as "NEO Mk.II" or "NEO gen 2" or "NEO 2".
The CTC between the bearings is also shortened a bit, for more finer adjustment on the target & a smoother action in the same time. Yes, the MOA/travel will be somewhat reduced by a bit.

I will attach some photos here...

I charge $ 60.00 for the improvements. Timer holder is optional. Contact your dealer for new pricing.

If you have any questions about the new NEO feel free to ask / email me.

We will also have our website updated soon.

Thanks you for your attention,
seb.

 

[seb]

More photos.... NEO & MAX side to side.

Re: the MAX.
First run of the MAX (75 units) to be released around late Nov - mid December 2012.
I have 63 units spoken for already. (Thanks you gentlemen for your confidence in my product! also for your patience!)

Here some photos of the Regular MAX & the Special Edition.
It's the latest model. (I will donate it / the regular model to the IBS 1,000yds National in WV & will make sure that the rest arrived before the match).

With the standard 3 pc bags (adjustable from 'zero' up to 8" wide). The bottom bag is thicker now.

With 1 pc bag 8" wide. (yes, the bag protudes more than 1/2" over the metal/leveler/stopper if you wonder about it)

Anyway, I might (still) probably change the base design...
The current regular model has 3 pc base & can be set with the single leg in the front or at shooter's side (it resembles the NEO's configuration).
The special edition has 2pc base & set with the long leg in the front. It's also will be used in up for up mode in this configuration.
Any inputs/suggestions will be much appreciated.

Both models weight about 44 lbs, excluded the counterweight.
Yes, it is built like a tank!
Ammo holder set & timer holder are optional.
Standard counterweight (adjustable) will be included, to accept/covers 40-60 lbs gun.
If you need more weight please let me know.
The MAX can accept gun up to 90 lbs, maybe more. Confirmed. The good thing is, joystick operation is similar to a NEO for LV/HV to LG gun use. (the 'key' is the counterweight. It must be in correct weight/combination).

Contact your dealer for pricing & information.

Best Regards,
seb.

 

[captainzeke]

Hey Seb
I have a Neo rest on order will I have to change my order or is all the new rests coming out in the next six months going to be the new and improved models ! Thanks for great product and new designs ... Isaac

 

[seb]

Isaac, all new rests will be the gen-2, starting from first August 2012. I have sent some to Ernie, probably some folks have already received the new rests.

Thanks,
seb.

 

[captainzeke]

Thanks seb

 

[seb]

You're welcome Isaac.
Thanks for choosing the NEO rest,
seb.

 

[4570sharpshooter]

Seb, Give me the pros and cons on the joysick counterweight . I have the Neo and was wondering on the advantages. Thanks,45/70SS

 

[Tahoe Shark]

Seb,
We have two of your NEO rests for our f open rifles and love them but what are you thoughts on the suitability of the MAX for the recoil of a 50 bmg bench rifle. Will it hold up? Will the recoil knock it off target? What is the minimum set up height from the bench to the top of the horizontal bag?

Thanks in Advance

 

[seb]

Seb, Give me the pros and cons on the joysick counterweight . I have the Neo and was wondering on the advantages. Thanks,45/70SS

Pro:
- the joystick action is/will be smoother with a correct counterweight. (i.e. remove the built-in uplift / springs inside)
- it gives more uniform tension (or better "feel") either at the very top or the very bottom of the travel.

Con:
Generally & functionally, the use of the counterweight is better...but for me, I have to bring more item, thus more weight to carry. I used the SEB & NEO in several matches without a counterweight myself, even for a 55 lbs heavy gun. And I didn't feel it's a disadvantage.
I don't know if this is a con?
Others may have different view.

Hope this answer your question,

seb.

 

[seb]

Seb,
We have two of your NEO rests for our f open rifles and love them but what are you thoughts on the suitability of the MAX for the recoil of a 50 bmg bench rifle. Will it hold up? Will the recoil knock it off target? What is the minimum set up height from the bench to the top of the horizontal bag?

Thanks in Advance

First, I have never shot a BMG myself, only seen it some from the 'youtube' & how it recoils under firing.
But I do believe that even the NEO (which is smaller) can accept the BMG, assuming the gun does not weight more than 80 lbs & has a brake.
I wouldn't hesitate at all to shoot a BMG with a NEO myself, as long as the gun has a good brake. I'm just about 155-160 lbs, btw. (I'm not kidding on this).
The MAX should work very well / without problem, I'm 100% believe it.
*Problem may happen when the rifle torque is too much, i.e. too narrow of a stock. If the gun tracks straight rearward then it should be no problem at all.

It's about 5.8" at the lowest setting, counts from the bottom of the base to the top of the horizontal bag.

seb.

 

[Tahoe Shark]

Thanks Seb

 

[762willdo]

"I charge $ 60.00 for the improvements."

can you add these improvements after the fact?? What do you get for the 60$
thanx

 

[seb]

"I charge $ 60.00 for the improvements."

can you add these improvements after the fact?? What do you get for the 60$
thanx

Pardon me... I don't understand with your questions, please explain. English is not my everyday languange, thanks.... seb.

 

[SEB-USA]

He means if a person already has a Gen 1 NEO, can they add the improvements later

 

[effendude]

Ernie, sending you an email to put my name on the list.
Thanks,
Scott

 

[seb]

Hi E, thanks for yours! Back home already!?


Okay 762willdo (why don't you use your real name, btw?)...let me try to explain:

Re: the adjustable lever screws.
The thread is M6x1.0 (metric), compatible with the standard/old screw & will easily changed.

Re: larger thumb nut on the joystick
It would also be easy to change, compatible with the old one.

Re: built-in uplift
I changed it from leaf spring to coil spring + polimer tip.
For that, I changed the alum bottom plate to a S/S plate.
Two coil springs are inserted inside the coaxial unit (to accept gun up to 25 lbs +/-), two spare springs included in the rest package (for those who want more uplift for heavier gun).
The coil springs are inserted into the bottom of the "X" sliding plate (#30). Total four drill holes there, two on each side (left & right side).
The old plate does not have drill holes.
The coil springs give more uniform tension, either at the very bottom or the very top of the travel.
However you can remove the springs, especially if you (want to) use the counter balance weight.

Re: clutch brake inside the handwheels
I changed the angle of the disc brake & bronze drum (#20 & #22) from 5 degree to 7 degree, also create a smoother surface (Ra # approx. 1.6) - for more 'trouble free' mechanism.
Because it is reported that a few brakes get 'stuck' when bumped. (On three rests out of hundreds).
The new brakes will work better.

Re: closer center to center between the two bearings
This allows a more finer adjustment on the paper/target, also a lighter force to operate the joystick, thus a more smoother action also.


Note: You can't upgrade the built-in uplift without a total disassembly with the sliding plates.
It wouldn't worth also to send the coaxial unit to me for an upgrade because it's not really a big difference between the leaf springs & coil springs. (=due to the overseas shipping, which is expensive).
Better chance is, to use a counterweight. It's more easy, and smoother.
The same with the closer CTC between the bearings.


New clutch brake parts can be ordered through Ernie. The new brakes are not compatible with the old brakes, but they have the same thread hole spacing, so can be installed to the current coaxial unit (can be replaced).
But my advise is: If it does not broke, don't change it!


Hope this explains the confusions, also thanks for choosing the NEO!
seb.


PS: I charge/increase the price also for the increased cost of the parts & increased price of some materials in the past few months.
Thanks you for your understanding!