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Seating Force Measurement

I made this gizmo a couple of years ago, it reads the exact seating pressure in pounds and prints a real time graph on a monitor. It works very well but to reach it's potential I need to make some additions to the press to allow for a constant force to be applied - I've got the parts needed, just need to find the time to get it done.


Video of the gauge in operation. HERE
 
Well it depends on how far down the rabbit hole you have gone. Certainly not one of the first steps in precision shooting.

For me measuring seating force was a great tool in learning what reloading procedures gave me more consistent neck tension. A great learning tool that will improve your groups size and consistency if you are just looking to improve already great groups by a tenth or less.
 
It works very well but to reach it's potential I need to make some additions to the press to allow for a constant force to be applied
Not a constant force, but a constant rate. The force will vary of course as that's what you're measuring, but rate change of seating affects force of seating. This, affecting accuracy of measure.
I take it the necks in your video were FL sized, as forces are not reaching plateau with seating depths.

Nice press
 
Not a constant force, but a constant rate. The force will vary of course as that's what you're measuring, but rate change of seating affects force of seating. This, affecting accuracy of measure.
I take it the necks in your video were FL sized, as forces are not reaching plateau with seating depths.

Nice press

Yes, quite right - constant rate is what's required and yes FL sized. Press I made in my home shop.
 
Regarding bullet pull or extraction force for a 30 caliber bullet needing 10 pounds to start moving it in the case neck, that happens when fired and pressure in the case is about 130 psi. Cross section area of the bullet and inside neck is about 1/13th square inch.

Several times more force to push the bullet fully into the rifling. 300 to 400 pounds to push a 7.62 M80 bullet into the rifling.
 
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Case#1/2 at post 15 works as described.
Bullets are not pushed through the friction of necks. They're released from necks, regardless of friction.

The area of a case the firing pressure applies to is considerably more than the back of a bullet.
And given powder reactions to confinement forces, resultant pressures in variance are dynamically higher than calculated as static.
 
I made this gizmo a couple of years ago, it reads the exact seating pressure in pounds and prints a real time graph on a monitor. It works very well but to reach it's potential I need to make some additions to the press to allow for a constant force to be applied - I've got the parts needed, just need to find the time to get it done.


Video of the gauge in operation. HERE


very cool. Works on a Mac? For sale?
 
We are not pushing bullets through seating forces on firing. Our bullets are released with our cases (including necks) expanding. Force x Area, and bullets are fully free floating with but a ~billionth of an inch of neck expansion, so it doesn't take much.
But it also doesn't take much to vary pressure rate/peak with this, and we have a relatively narrow window that we're operating in.

Actual neck tension amounts to the force needed to overcome neck grip on bullets. On firing, this is purely neck spring back against an area of bullet bearing.

Presumably a strong corollary to this is that having consistent neck expansion is important. I don't mean dimensionally but rather the elasticity of the brass; how it expands on firing. And hence annealing to a consistent brass hardness should be important.
 
Presumably a strong corollary to this is that having consistent neck expansion is important. I don't mean dimensionally but rather the elasticity of the brass; how it expands on firing. And hence annealing to a consistent brass hardness should be important.
You're right, and lower tension also means lower variance of it, and annealing does lower tension.
Annealing helps people manage their tension to a standard that they established with load development.
But it's not automatically what everyone should do to an extreme. Some loads like more tension.

Annealed condition of necks can be pretty difficult to see with seating forces. Often the annealing process changes friction of neck IDs, and they also lose some spring back. So your downsizing of freshly annealed necks spring back outward less on removal of the sizing die, leaving tighter interference fit to seat bullets into. So the bullets end up expanding necks more, which can measure as a higher seating force, even while tension is actually lower.
You can of course normalize friction with lubricants (I recommend dry), but muzzle velocity is still affected by soft -vs- hard necks (by the tension they provide).
Necks getting harder can also increase seating forces, and one way or the other you're probably detecting a problem as increasing seating forces.

For me, when it becomes a battle to match pre-seating forces (off a mandrel), it's time to dip anneal the batch. That's not a full anneal, but stress relieving. I think it's called 'process annealing'.
Since I always partial neck size with bushings, and my adjustment is length of that sizing, I need pretty much normal spring back from necks -to provide for adjustment within sufficient tension range. It's what I'm load developing with and managing.
 
The picture & video provided earlier by 1066 gives me an opportunity to explain why I don't and would never FL size necks. There you can see an early hump followed by a relatively linear, and relatively sharp, ramp upward. The first hump is the bullet base-bearing overcoming change from mouth chamfer to full neck thickness. From there as bullet bearing is seating ever deeper the force to do so continually rises. If bearing were to encounter donut area thickness, there would be another higher hump.

With partial length sized necks, there is the same first hump, then a slight rise from there, around a knee, and leveling off to plateau well before the bullet is fully seated. This plateau gives me a steady solid reading even while pushing the bullet deeper. In fact it doesn't matter how far beyond the knee I continue seating, the max grip is already displayed and won't increase unless I hit donut thickness. But I don't hit donut thickness because I don't FL size necks to bring that into either interference or tension.

The point of all this is that it's easier to match seating forces from a flat portion of curve, than from a sharply rising curve. My tension is maxing lower, but very consistent. Not a problem, as I've load developed with it, and my necks can go way longer between annealing before their plateaus are affected. It's more forgiving.
 
I made this gizmo a couple of years ago, it reads the exact seating pressure in pounds and prints a real time graph on a monitor. It works very well but to reach it's potential I need to make some additions to the press to allow for a constant force to be applied - I've got the parts needed, just need to find the time to get it done.


Video of the gauge in operation. HERE
what arbor press is this?
 

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