Seating Depths for the VLD's

[FTRinTexas]

Per the Daily Bulletin back on 3/14/09 on this site, Berger states, “Interestingly, while VLDs commonly work best seated into the rifling .010 or more, Berger’s research indicates that, in some rifles, VLDs perform well jumped .040 or more.”

For the folks using VLD bullets, are you truly jamming them, touching the lands or jumping?

Interested in the results for the 30 cal VLD’s.

 

[alf]

I always shoot them in the lands with a square mark on the bullet.

 

[TonyR]

I shot a lot of the Berger 7mm and 6mm VLDs and always ended up jamming them 0.010-0.015 inches. I have tried different seating depths between just touching and jammed 0.025 inches but 0.010-0.015 inches has always proven best for me. I also jam the Berger 30 cal 185LRBT 0.010 inches even though it is not a VLD. I have never jumped the VLDs but I do jump the Berger Hybrids.

 

[Preacher]

The 25 cal 115 VLDs shoot the best in my 16" 25/284 at .042 off...........

 

[fullersson]

In the 6br and the .243win I jam them .040. Brian Brown.

 

[markm87]

I've had good luck with VLDs and AMAX in .308 by jumping them. They're loaded longer than mag length for a factory Rem 700.

Tried a few VLDs in 300 win mag at mag length and holy smokes. HORRIBLE accuracy.

 

[Bamban]

I've shot the 155 VLDs and 175 VLDs at mag length in my AR10s and M1As with excellent result. They are jumpimg quite a bit.

 

[fl3gun]

My 6BR 8 twist Broughton shoots the 105 VLD's best at .045 off. If you are going to load test the VLD's give Berger's seating depth advice a try.

 

[savageboy]

Here's a question for the group- if they shoot as good or almost as good jammed say 15 thou. as jumped 40 thou, aren't you better off jamming them due to the jumping .40 thou eats up more case capacity then jamming them? Maybe Im over thinking this/ or over sensitve to this from shooting a .260AI and 6brx and trying to do what I can to maxmimze case capacity for powder vs/ the base of bullet taking up that space? Just wondering

 

[fullersson]

IMO I don't worry about anything but pure accuracy. If bullets shoot better jumped then that's how I would load them. I don't worry about case capacity, velocity, or anything else except accuracy. I want my case capacity at 95% and I want my velocity up as high as I can get it but accuracy (for me) is the deciding factor at the end of the day. Brian Brown.

 

[DennisH]

All Berger bullets for me works best around .010 in the lands.

Exception: My 338 likes Bergers .030 off the lands, most interesting, the 338 likes everything off the lands .030 to .050 off!!!!

All my SMK's like up to be .030 off, some like it kissing the lands

Everyone one of my guns have their favorite bullet! I will do a ladder test, and bingo, when you hit the right load, it's dead on!

I will have to say the SMK's are surprising me here lately! I have a BRX that will only shoot 107 smk's! I have tried everything else, but I have stocked up on smk's for my BRX!

 

[Heavies]

I have been running 6mm VLDs jumped .030". I tried jam, but my 6br didn't agree.
It funny because SMKs, in this rifle, like to be jammed/soft seated. Inverse of the norm I guess, but I'm not concerned, I just do what my rifle wants.

 

[Laurie]

I shot a lot of the Berger 7mm and 6mm VLDs and always ended up jamming them 0.010-0.015 inches. I have tried different seating depths between just touching and jammed 0.025 inches but 0.010-0.015 inches has always proven best for me. I also jam the Berger 30 cal 185LRBT 0.010 inches even though it is not a VLD. I have never jumped the VLDs but I do jump the Berger Hybrids. [TonyR]

Like Tony, this has always been my practice with VLDs in .223/90, 6BR, 6.5X55, and .308 Win in several rifles and barrels and with very good results. The sole failure to date is 130gn Berger 6.5 VLD and same weight Norma Black Diamond bullets in .260 Rem, but it may be the rifle's 5R barrel just doesn't like those bullets for whatever reason. I do intend to try the Berger again next summer with the 20 to 80 thou' jump regime in .260 and see if it can be made to persuade the bullet to work better, solely in the interest of experimentation.

Tony,
we're just about to get the first delivery of 30 cal Hybrids (155-200gn inclusive) here in the UK around the end of the year. Have you noticed if they're simply jump-tolerant overall like conventional Berger BT tangent ogive bullets, or noticed any predeliction for a small / medium / large amount?

 

[TonyR]

I shot a lot of the Berger 7mm and 6mm VLDs and always ended up jamming them 0.010-0.015 inches. I have tried different seating depths between just touching and jammed 0.025 inches but 0.010-0.015 inches has always proven best for me. I also jam the Berger 30 cal 185LRBT 0.010 inches even though it is not a VLD. I have never jumped the VLDs but I do jump the Berger Hybrids. [TonyR]

Like Tony, this has always been my practice with VLDs in .223/90, 6BR, 6.5X55, and .308 Win in several rifles and barrels and with very good results. The sole failure to date is 130gn Berger 6.5 VLD and same weight Norma Black Diamond bullets in .260 Rem, but it may be the rifle's 5R barrel just doesn't like those bullets for whatever reason. I do intend to try the Berger again next summer with the 20 to 80 thou' jump regime in .260 and see if it can be made to persuade the bullet to work better, solely in the interest of experimentation.

Tony,
we're just about to get the first delivery of 30 cal Hybrids (155-200gn inclusive) here in the UK around the end of the year. Have you noticed if they're simply jump-tolerant overall like conventional Berger BT tangent ogive bullets, or noticed any predeliction for a small / medium / large amount?

Hi Laurie.

I have some of the 215 and 230 gr 30 cal Hybrids but I haven't put the barrel on a gun yet. The 7mm 180 Hybrid definitely likes 0.010 off the lands. That is what I was shooting with the Shehane in Ireland and Scotland last summer. I probably won't have a 1:10 30 cal up and running until Aril or May 2012.

 

[Laurie]

I have some of the 215 and 230 gr 30 cal Hybrids but I haven't put the barrel on a gun yet. The 7mm 180 Hybrid definitely likes 0.010 off the lands. That is what I was shooting with the Shehane in Ireland and Scotland last summer. I probably won't have a 1:10 30 cal up and running until Aril or May 2012.

Thanks Tony.

I'll be a little ahead of you - I'll pick up my Barnard / Eliseo tubegun at the weekend just rebarrelled with a 32" True-Flite 1-10" Match Rifle profile barrel. The throating suits the 185 Berger BTLR seated shallow, the 210gn Berger BTLR optimally, and the 210gn VLD reasonably well. If I've done my sums right using sample Hybrids that Michelle Gallagher kindly managed to get to me via a Brit competing in the SOA and US F Nationals earlier this year, it should be ideal for the 215 Hybrid, rather short for the 230 Hybrid, a bit on the long side for the 200gn Hybrid and very long for the 185gn same unless it performs with a really hefty jump - we'll see!

(The 'Match Rifle' barrel profile is taking another chance on the specification. This is a long skinny fast twist barrel geared to British Commonwealth Match Rifle rules that mandate a 5.5lb maximum barrel weight. The Barnard 'P' action and Eliseo stock make a rather heavy combination, so the 2lb - 2.5lb or so I save by replacing the rifle's previous heavy match profile barrel are available for a much heavier riflescope than the Weaver T36 I was forced into using, and if needed, allows a heavier bi-pod.)

Laurie

 

[TonyR]

(The 'Match Rifle' barrel profile is taking another chance on the specification. This is a long skinny fast twist barrel geared to British Commonwealth Match Rifle rules that mandate a 5.5lb maximum barrel weight. The Barnard 'P' action and Eliseo stock make a rather heavy combination, so the 2lb - 2.5lb or so I save by replacing the rifle's previous heavy match profile barrel are available for a much heavier riflescope than the Weaver T36 I was forced into using, and if needed, allows a heavier bi-pod.)

Laurie

I'll be interested to hear how that light barrel works. I have a 1:11 twist light Palma barrel which is probably about the same thing that I have wondered about using due to heat concerns.

 

[Laurie]

I'll be interested to hear how that light barrel works. I have a 1:11 twist light Palma barrel which is probably about the same thing that I have wondered about using due to heat concerns.

No problem Tony. I'll email you in the New Year when I've got some loads sorted and had the chance to use it in a long-range match. (The weather has to improve a lot too - we're not very cold so far, but are suffering a really long run of deep Atlantic depressions giving us rain and gales. I haven't shot in reasonable conditions since the F European Championships on the first weekend of November!)

Laurie

 

[spclark]

I discovered Berger's 6mm 105VLD shoots better jumped at least 0.020" & in fact can tolerate much more. I'd grabbed a box of ammo loaded for the shorter throat of one of my T2k barrels to try in my then-new (early '09) 6XC long range rifle. Jumping nearly 0.060" they shot better @ 600 yds than the soft-seated loads I'd prepared.

Late this past season the limited testing I did with their new 6mm Hybrid was done with them jumped 0.020" too out of expediency & they shot every bit as good in two different 6's, the LR 6XC and my 6HAGAR spacegun.

Plan for 2012 is to try the Hybrid 155 .308 bullet jumping too when I get started.

The expressed purpose behind the Hybrid profile is to make bullets available that are easier to shoot good where VLD's sometimes prove to be finicky.

 

[TonyR]

The Hybrids I've shot are definitely less sensitive to seating depth changes than the comparable VLDs are. If nothing else, I don't have to watch the throat wear as carefully and they have been much easier to tune in the first place.

 

[civil82]

Hey guys, I haven't posted much here, but plan to more in the future. I primarily varmint hunt and have used VLDs a little in the past for longer range deer hunting. My experiences with 30cal has been limited to 190 and 175 VLDs. For hunting rifles, I mandate that I can load more than one round in a bolt-action.
My only input is to do what Berger recommends and load jammed, then at varied depths out to .090-.120 jump. My M70 Heavy Varmint in 308 shot nice bug-holes at the rifling, then opened up at .015, .030. They shot well enough for comfortable 500 yard whitetail shooting at .090 jump. My XCR Tactical in 300WM has only shot the 190s at the rifling, as I don't worry about a quick follow-up on groundhogs.
I recently fired 115VLDs out of a 26" T/C Encore in 25-06. Testing was done by seating the bullet upon closing of the action, then again .015, .030, .060, .090, and .120 jump. I had a lot of verticle stringing at jammed through .030. It was decent round .75 MOA groups at .060, then they went down to .5MOA five shot groups at .090. I ended up not testing the .120 jump. I took them home, seated to .090 jump and went back to the range to confirm that the small groups weren't a fluke.