scope out of adjustment .. help

[bozo699]

I've had similar problems w/Savages. The worst was a .223 VLP which had a curved bore in the barrel, it was off by more than 30MOA. Savage replaced the barrel and it was much better. Another one was off by about 15MOA, which was cured by the installation of a quality recoil lug. Savage certainly doesn't turn out the highest quality machine work. I'm of the opinion that if a rifle does not shoot "straight" with a known good, optically centered scope, then you need to go looking for the root cause of the problem rather than band-aid it with tapered bases and zee rings and stuff like that. Within reason of course.

100% spot on.
Wayne.

 

[fdshuster]

jhord & Wayne: Agree with everything you've said, but I can't believe any scope, even one with the quality of a Leupold, could take a fall, typically about 32", from a shooting bench to a concrete surface and not have at least a high chance of internal damage.

Without doing anything drastic, a simple check would be to mount another scope of known quality & try it, and/or mount the Leupold on another rifle.

Many different ways of solving this problem, but to me, the scope is the most likely cause.

 

[jhord]

That's absolutely correct Mr. Shuster and I should have prefaced my comment with that. Also I did not mean to slight what anyone said about rings or bases, because those are valid solutions sometimes. But it sounds like the OP's rifle is probably 25-30MOA out of whack, something is way wrong.

Without doing anything drastic, a simple check would be to mount another scope of known quality & try it, and/or mount the Leupold on another rifle.

 

[chevytruck_83]

As long as the clicks are true 1/4 inch and range true 100 its 38 inches low at 100 yards. I guess I'll try another scope first then go from there. If this scope ends up being the same how would I best determine if its barrel or action surface? I wouldn't mind shimming since it does hold a very good group for a factory gun and I'd like to use the adjustable leupold mounts. Unless of course there is a reason to determine the problem that I'm not aware of. I'd hate to find out its the barrel and send it back for one that doesn't group as well.

 

[fdshuster]

chevytruck_83: If it were me I'd try to solve the problem with the least expenditure, and while keeping the existing barrel, since it does seem to be a good one.

If a different scope solves the problem, then I'd still be looking at returning the Leupold for inspection. The most that will cost you is shipping charges to Leupold. That way, at least you will be assured that the scope is trouble-free. Leupold always pays return shipping.

If the scope is returned, mounted, and the problem persists, but you still want to keep the barrel, I would still use the Burris Signature rings with the off-set inserts. By reading between the lines I have the impression that you think switching to Burris rings would require that you replace the Leupold base(s), and then you would lose the built-in windage adjustment on the Leupold base. Not true. You can buy the Burris Signature rings to fit the Leupold (and Redfield) base mounts, so with that combination you would have the best of both worlds: the elevation choices of the Signatures and the Windage of the Leupold.

9" low at 100 yards is some serious adjustment. I still don't see how even a mass produced factory rifle could be off by that much, especially with all the CNC controlled machinery that is being used today, but I guess a radically bad one could slip through ? Let us know what the "bottom line" is.

 

[bozo699]

jhord & Wayne: Agree with everything you've said, but I can't believe any scope, even one with the quality of a Leupold, could take a fall, typically about 32", from a shooting bench to a concrete surface and not have at least a high chance of internal damage.
Without doing anything drastic, a simple check would be to mount another scope of known quality & try it, and/or mount the Leupold on another rifle.

Many different ways of solving this problem, but to me, the scope is the most likely cause.

Frank,
Your exactly right I over looked that in the op's second post and it didn't register until you said something but for sure I would try a different scope that I knew was good and box the one that took a fall and send it in for an inspection.

9" low at 100 yards is some serious adjustment. I still don't see how even a mass produced factory rifle could be off by that much, especially with all the CNC controlled machinery that is being used today, but I guess a radically bad one could slip through ? Let us know what the "bottom line" is.

Frank,
A few months back we had this same dilemma on here with the same model or at least same manufacturer, I can't remember for sure but I think the barrel was banana shaped or something, but same scenario would shoot good groups just took all the scope Had to almost get it there.
Wayne.

 

[chevytruck_83]

Thanks a lot guys. Great info. Your right in saying I would like to keep theleupold rings for the windage adjustment and I did not realise I could use the Burris setup with them. Called leupold about the scope and they said since you bought it used send it in if there is any doubt. Problem with that is now I'm considering spending more money and having the Tactical milling reticule installed. May not get to shoot for a week or two but I will post my findings when I get them. Thanks to all again

 

[expiper]

Hey Chevy truk...there is a set of Burris Sig Z rings for sale on here...http://forum.accurateshooter.com/index.php/topic,3778331.0.html

you culd get em and use a set of Weaver style bases and be in business in a day or two....Roger

 

[jhord]

That was probably my .223 VLP, Wayne. Known good optically centered scope, base and rings and it would shoot over 30" low at 100. IIRC it was shooting almost 36" low. I could barely get on paper at 25 yards. It nearly drove me crazy. The tricky bit was that it was boresighting fine, but the bullet was not going where the barrel was pointed. It ended up being a banana bore and Savage replaced the barrel. Problem solved.

A few months back we had this same dilemma on here with the same model or at least same manufacturer, I can't remember for sure but I think the barrel was banana shaped or something, but same scenario would shoot good groups just took all the scope Had to almost get it there.
Wayne.

 

[bozo699]

That was probably my .223 VLP, Wayne. Known good optically centered scope, base and rings and it would shoot over 30" low at 100. IIRC it was shooting almost 36" low. I could barely get on paper at 25 yards. It nearly drove me crazy. The tricky bit was that it was boresighting fine, but the bullet was not going where the barrel was pointed. It ended up being a banana bore and Savage replaced the barrel. Problem solved.

A few months back we had this same dilemma on here with the same model or at least same manufacturer, I can't remember for sure but I think the barrel was banana shaped or something, but same scenario would shoot good groups just took all the scope Had to almost get it there.
Wayne.

Yes sir, yours was the one I was thinking of, just couldn't remember, but that jogged my memory. That was a weird deal and was a little frustrating as I recall before it was all figured out.
Wayne.

 

[chevytruck_83]

Tried a different scope and rings. Same results. Got it sighted in with the z rings but still needed to use way more scope adjustment then I should have to. Think I'm going to send it to savage

 

[BoydAllen]

The Burris inserts can be rotated so that their offsets are horizontal, vertical, or anything in between, and they are available up to .020, which should pretty much handle anything that is not bent or seriously crooked.

 

[chevytruck_83]

Yea. I bought them and got it within my Scopes adjustment range but I can't help but feel like its just a bandaid to a real issue. With the scope centered vertically it was low about 2 ft at 100. That's with the z rings setup for close to 30 moa. Little less because I rotated them to center windage also which is kinda nice but difficult to adjust once scope is mounted. I know I could have got the Burris rings to fit my leupold MT but Cabelas was out of stock on them. Am I wrong in thinking that mounting the scope with a standard 2 piece 30 mm leupold mount should be within a few inches vertically at 100? All my Remington 700s were...

 

[fdshuster]

chevytruck_83: Looks like you've eliminated about every other possibility. At this point, if I were you, I'd also send it back to Savage with some very detailed notes as to the problem.

About 6 years ago I bought a used Remington 700 only to get the receiver, it came with a pencil thin sporter barrel. Had no use for the barrel & gave it to a friend who likes to "tinker".

When he chucked it up in his lathe with the intention of recutting the crown, the muzzle end was jumping around so much it was impossible to make any kind of a cut. It went into the scrap bin.

 

[BoydAllen]

Possibly a dumb question...Savages have been made with rear bridges that are lower than the front, and also, more recently with rear bridges of the same height and radius as the front. ( I believe) If you used a base that was for a newer action on an older one it would point the scope more upward and the rifle would print low on target.

 

[chevytruck_83]

News to me. Sounds like a real possibility. Just purchased the gun new a week or 2 ago. Would hope its a new version. Guess I could check with savage via Vin. It is a new mount but the gun has the accu trigger. That usually Indicates a newer model. Doesn't it?...

 

[ShaneG.]

On my older flat back savage long action I used a one piece EGW base and when the front was tightened up I had roughly a .020" gap in the rear,I ended up using JB weld to bed it and fill the gap. I have a flat back Short action that I used Burris windage adjustable bases on and after turning in the front ring I had about.030" gap between the bottom of the ring and the base and I used shim stock to take up the gap.

My newer round back short action seemed to be fine with a weaver one piece 20moa mount. Most of them look as if they were sanded/polished around the top sides of the action. I would remove the bases and lay a straight edge across the top of the action to see what it looks like. At least it might give you a better idea of what is wrong before you send it back.

 

[bozo699]

Yea. I bought them and got it within my Scopes adjustment range but I can't help but feel like its just a bandaid to a real issue. With the scope centered vertically it was low about 2 ft at 100. That's with the z rings setup for close to 30 moa. Little less because I rotated them to center windage also which is kinda nice but difficult to adjust once scope is mounted. I know I could have got the Burris rings to fit my leupold MT but Cabelas was out of stock on them. Am I wrong in thinking that mounting the scope with a standard 2 piece 30 mm leupold mount should be within a few inches vertically at 100? All my Remington 700s were...

Greg,
You have hit the nail on the head, the Burris rings are a bandaid for the real problem,...your still not even close to being optically centered so it is still not right. I am not you but if I were I would send it back with a detailed report of what it's doing and remedies you have tried, and you would like it to be corrected! While it was in the shop I would take the opportunity to send the Leupold back as well with a brief statement of what happened.

Just for S&Giggles bore sight the rifle and see if the cross hairs are pointing where the barrel is, where you have everything set right now.
Wayne.

 

[chevytruck_83]

That's exactly what I had in mind. Send the gun and scope out at the same time. Its cold out and the wind blows hard in your face where I like to shoot. Get it done now for when its nice enou9gh to spend long days at the range.

 

[hayboy]

Burris Sig Zee+++Got the wrong rings on a Ruger rifle one time and I almost pulled my hair out. Someone had mixed them b/f sales.