Scope limits in BR shooting

[Dave Way]

It is Benchrest and the goal is to shoot as small as possible so why would you limit anything? Now if you’re shooting something they mimics a hunting situation, I suppose I could see some limitations on the rifle and possibly the scope too.

Dave.

 

[22turborimfire]

Do we need to give everyone a trophy.

 

[TRSR8]

Never really understood why some clubs introduce dumb, arbitrary rules with little or no knowledge about the topic.
Club match……it’s supposed to be primarily fun.

 

[drover]

Our local club is new to 50 yard bench rest shooting on the IBS green target. We have arbitrarily set a 6x scope limit. Some shooters want more power. We may try the IBS red target soon that really needs a higher power scope.
Question: how do handle this? I am not sure why we set a 6x limit in the first place. I see that folks are using scopes with anywhere from 4 to 50.
We don’t want our group to get involved in a $ race if we can.
Suggestions?

If you set a scope limit I would suggest at least 9X as the upper limit, many shooters have 3-9 scopes and the higher power will help those with weaker eyes.

An earlier post suggested a price limit on scopes which could be done by using the MSRP to establish the price.

There is nothing worse than having "fun" matches where they become dominated by shooters with high-dollar equipment, pretty soon people quit attending.

The local club has rifle meat shoots 4 times a year, it used to get 25 - 30 shooters then someone showed up with a benchrest rifle and mega-dollar scopes. Then 3 - 4 other guys did the same. At that point the guys that were there for the "fun" match 'using their sporter or factory vamint rifles quit attending because they no longer had a fair chance of winning anything.

drover

 

[Luisyamaha]

I would not put any limits based on cost. Costs change over time and savvy shoppers may get better deals etc.. Endless arguments will ensue.

If you want to put in some $$$ limits, you do it on a "claim" basis. Example: you can have a $1,000.00 claim category. Anybody can "claim" a winning rifle/scope combination for $1,000.00 and the owner HAS to sell it to him. You can have a $2,000.00 claim category also, or as many as you want for any amount you want. Nobody will enter the $1,000.00 category with a Vudoo and a Nightforce on it. If somebody REFUSES to sell their claimed rifle, they get did-qualified and banned from competition. "Sleepers' get discouraged.
Now, all this has to be EXTREMELY clear from the git-go.
They do it with horses. And they used to do it with racing motorcycles!

I'd stick with limiting the scope's power (but more like 25X) And/or having to use supplied ammunition.

Luisyamaha

 

[drover]

I would not put any limits based on cost. Costs change over time and savvy shoppers may get better deals etc.. Endless arguments will ensue.

Luisyamaha

Thats why I suggested to set the limit at MSRP

There are already some disciplines that do this

drover

 

[CJ6]

I would think about just raising the power limit to around 25x, that way Even the cheaper scopes can still somewhat contend at 50. I use a Vortex Venom 5x25x56 and it was $399.00 at the time I purchased it a few years ago. That said, we have no power/$$$ limit set at our matches, and my relatively inexpensive Vortex has held it's own against the likes of $3000+ NF 60x scopes.

Thats why I suggested to set the limit at MSRP

There are already some disciplines that do this

drover

The problem with MSRP is buying used. Say you have a 40 X sold in the 60s-80s versus a newer one. The MSRP is much higher. Optics as seen lately when you have a $2500 MSRP scope and you buy it for $1400. This is an issue. I like the idea of the club providing the ammo. It can be changed every competition. That way nobody has an advantage.

 

[mhblaw]

As I expected, most agree it can get out of hand. I have a 40 year old Lyman 10x scope on a 40 year old Remington 541s. My best BR score at 50 yards is 248 9x. So I looked at a new 4-20x scope for $600….but decided no. Too much fun just joshing around with us old guys and our old equipment.

 

[qec]

A $2000 scope is not winning the match. High-end rifles and ammo make measurable differences. Seems to me that as long as your scope holds zero you are not at a competitive disadvantage. My 50yd 22 scope goes to something like 32 - 36 and costs me about $300. It's not the most clear glass in the world but it is fine. Mueller and Vector make very affordable scopes that work find for this application. Higher $$ scopes matter in games where you are dialing constantly or you just want clearer glass.

 

[scasa]

A $2000 scope is not winning the match. High-end rifles and ammo make measurable differences. Seems to me that as long as your scope holds zero you are not at a competitive disadvantage. My 50yd 22 scope goes to something like 32 - 36 and costs me about $300. It's not the most clear glass in the world but it is fine. Mueller and Vector make very affordable scopes that work find for this application. Higher $$ scopes matter in games where you are dialing constantly or you just want clearer glass.

I got a mueller scope and they emailed me a request for a review I gave one and they sent me a 30 % off code on my next order so I bought another one and got another 30% off code, put a 300 dollar scope down to 200.00. I think there a pretty decent scope.

 

[Dfish1247]

Just have a green class and a red class.

Maybe make the green the entry level where it’s a stock factory mass produced rifle with any 6x scope and any ammo. Maybe a trigger upgrade is allowed as that’s not too ridiculous expensive and most people competing would do that anyway even on the local scale. No aftermarket stocks, bolts, barrels, etc.

Red could be the show off the wallet class. Run what you brung. Bigger prize of course for the red, more skin in the game and all. If you have anyone who competes on the big scale, they’ll use this for more practice.


Set the rules for each and have fun.

 

[jimmymac]

JME, too many unnecessary rules will ultimately take the fun out of it.

I witnessed this exact thing last year at a club match. The format was UBR targets with different classes of firearms. Some guy shows up with a bone stock factory 6PPC rifle and gets told he can’t compete in factory class due to the caliber of his factory rifle. He ends up bumped to custom class where as suspected, he proceeded to get his ass handed to him in short order. I bet he had a good time.

 

[WyleWD]

I witnessed this exact thing last year at a club match. The format was UBR targets with different classes of firearms. Some guy shows up with a bone stock factory 6PPC rifle and gets told he can’t compete in factory class due to the caliber of his factory rifle. He ends up bumped to custom class where as suspected, he proceeded to get his ass handed to him in short order. I bet he had a good time.

Owning a Ruger 6ppc as I do, I'm quite familiar with the fella's plight. LOL. JME. WD

 

[Dgd6mm]

Who doesn't like more magnification, and I'm not talking about 50 or 60 power for 50 yards. I just shot my 4-16 Vortex PST in my first ARA factory match this past Monday. I faired well but had 2 zeros in 3 cards.
I can tell you higher magnification would not have helped me there, missing the condition change and my hold cost me. But for these old eyes, 6x would not be enough.

 

[Bill Clifton]

Everyone brings a receipt???

Because people make deals and buy and trade from individuals. Making them go buy brand new at the store for an official receipt sort of defeats the purpose if it's all about cost.

 

[RED DIRT]

Everyone brings a receipt???

Are there rules about what your allowed to spend on a gun to compete? Does everybody carry a receipt to prove what they paid for their gun?

Don`t get me wrong on what i said, as it is what they did at my club to try to fix their issues. If it were me, i would maybe limit the gun, but put whatever scope you want, on the gun. Limiting the scope is the main issue. Some folks need some better scopes just to see a target. I`m very old, my eyes aren`t what they use to be, so does that mean we should stop older folks from being able to shoot just because a better scope may help even the odds for them? I mean, where does this BS rule making stop.

Should we not allow people who wear prescription glasses not to shoot because someone else thinks its giving them a winning edge, but the the guy wearing contact lenses sneaks in and wins because he/she can see better than the disqualified guy who wore his prescription eye glasses to a match?

The problem i have with all these ridiculous rules these clubs keep dictating, it WILL lose shooters all across the spectrum. Already seeing the ill effects of it at clubs in my area. It has actually lost all the young shooters.

It use to be fun to shoot rimfire with a few friends, but that`s not the case anymore. Everybody wants to make a bunch of dumbazz rules instead of just having fun. What and how does this bring new young shooters to the sport with so damn many rules slapping them in the face. Its bad enough what we all have to pay today with all the prices, the rules, the fed & state laws. Takes the enjoyment right out of it.

 

[Jefferson]

It is Benchrest and the goal is to shoot as small as possible so why would you limit anything? Now if you’re shooting something they mimics a hunting situation, I suppose I could see some limitations on the rifle and possibly the scope too.

Dave.

used weaver 36 powers are what 300 bucks

either do 2 classes or none at all

or have low power up to 24. High power up to 36 or 45. and fun class shoot what you brung

 

[Dimner]

This thread reminds me that you can always find people who will suck the fun out of something.

Too many rules
Not enough rules
$$$$ Arms race
$$$$ Limits
One faction vs another faction.

Someone is going to end up not having fun. So basically it's a crapshoot. Join/Try something once, if it is fun GREAT! But just realize it can turn to no fun at all just as fast. Don't get too attached to a format. Don't be immovable. Vote with your pocket book, voice and participation.

 

[CJ6]

Are there rules about what your allowed to spend on a gun to compete? Does everybody carry a receipt to prove what they paid for their gun?

Don`t get me wrong on what i said, as it is what they did at my club to try to fix their issues. If it were me, i would maybe limit the gun, but put whatever scope you want, on the gun. Limiting the scope is the main issue. Some folks need some better scopes just to see a target. I`m very old, my eyes aren`t what they use to be, so does that mean we should stop older folks from being able to shoot just because a better scope may help even the odds for them? I mean, where does this BS rule making stop.

Should we not allow people who wear prescription glasses not to shoot because someone else thinks its giving them a winning edge, but the the guy wearing contact lenses sneaks in and wins because he/she can see better than the disqualified guy who wore his prescription eye glasses to a match?

The problem i have with all these ridiculous rules these clubs keep dictating, it WILL lose shooters all across the spectrum. Already seeing the ill effects of it at clubs in my area. It has actually lost all the young shooters.

It use to be fun to shoot rimfire with a few friends, but that`s not the case anymore. Everybody wants to make a bunch of dumbazz rules instead of just having fun. What and how does this bring new young shooters to the sport with so damn many rules slapping them in the face. Its bad enough what we all have to pay today with all the prices, the rules, the fed & state laws. Takes the enjoyment right out of it.

I think you misunderstood my post. Did you see the ????? marks ? Meaning is everyone supposed to bring reciepts for everything showing MSRP (kinda pointless). I mean That guys using $29 ammo and I'm only using $3 ammo it's an endless diatribe. So I suggest The club supplies the ammo, (cheap to High end) and change it every shoot, limit sighters and run what ya brung. It about as RULE FREE as you can get , Maybe separate the semi-autos but other than that let'em play.

 

[Dimner]

To be honest. The CMP has this handled fairly well. They put limits on equipment specs not dollar amounts. It makes it a level playing field for all. Your 4x night force isn't going to have that much of an advantage over a Leupold 3-9 that is taped and inspected to be at 4x for the day of the match. I decided to go the Leupold route and spend the extra on practice ammo.

Just make sure when you shoot that you are shooting in a sanctioned match governed by a national org. That's the easiest way to know what you are stepping into. All the hard work is done for you.

When the match organizer changes rules from the national org, it's no longer a sactioned match. You can choose to walk away, participate, or lobby to use national rules. If you use your voice and others disagree with the organizer, match attendance will be the indicator that they are doing something stupid. If there are a core group of 4 or so guys who want to play by dumb rules, let them have their 4 person shoot.

It's easy enough to get the rest of the people and work out another separate match