at my suggestion ,a friend bought a savage 223, 1in 9 twist, laminated thumbhole ?pillar bedded stock model12. the first gun had the WORST bore i've ever seen. borescoped and saw pieces of steel sticking into the bore and pieces of cleaning patch fibers stuck in same. returned to savage and new gun arrives. the patch test: bumpy bore but not like the first. borescopeed and saw some tool marks and some dents. the bumpy patch bothers me. will these irregularities gouge cooper from the bullet and be hell to clean? is this type of bore normal for savage? his factory rem's bore is very smooth and shoots great. plan on calling savage but suspect i'll get "it's alright, just shoot it etc. etc." appreciate any input from the savage shooters...i'm under the impression since remington's quality has gone down, that savage was producing guns of superion quality. thanks[/quote] if i can see you, i can touch you.BANG!
savage barrel ?problem
- Thread starter lpreddick
- Start date
I don't own a Savage but a friend brought one in 25 06 with the accu-stock system. I didn't look down the bore but this rifle was shooting under 1/2 moa with reloads tailored to the rifle.
I was impressed and have heard nothing but good things about Savages from other shooters who own them but a lemon is always possible from any manufacturer these days.
The condition you descibed does not sound condusive to good accuracy but I'd shoot it and see. If bad, you can return the rifle with the targets as evidence of a lousy barrel.
Many years ago I had this same thing happened to me with a Remington 700 varmint, their expensive model. The rifle would not hold a group under 2 inches at 100 yards. I had to battle with Remington but they finally agreed to replace the rifle. The replacement was excellent.
I was impressed and have heard nothing but good things about Savages from other shooters who own them but a lemon is always possible from any manufacturer these days.
The condition you descibed does not sound condusive to good accuracy but I'd shoot it and see. If bad, you can return the rifle with the targets as evidence of a lousy barrel.
Many years ago I had this same thing happened to me with a Remington 700 varmint, their expensive model. The rifle would not hold a group under 2 inches at 100 yards. I had to battle with Remington but they finally agreed to replace the rifle. The replacement was excellent.
The barrel on my 22-250 1 in 9 twist VLP is rough. You can the the chatter marks from the button, with the naked eye, looking down he muzzle of the barrel. This gun copper fouls really bad and lets just say the crown isn't the nicest one that I've seen either. My gunsmith friend and I talked about it and she's going to get a new barrel before too long!
Mike
Mike
I have a few savages and I have only borescoped one barrel though. You could see chatter marks from the button, but the crown looked good. I don't believe I have ever had a "bumpy patch" feeling in any of the barrels though. It doesn't copper too bad and shoots better after 15 rounds or so down the barrel. Of all the savages I have and have seen, I have not seen one that wouldn't shoot moa or better, even with the sporter rifles. The varmint rifles I have all shoot .75 moa or better with little load development. I have a 12bvss in 22-250 that is a .5 moa gun with cheap, bulk, factory winchester 45g hp. It is possible to get a bad barrel from anyone, but I would shoot it and see how it does. It may surprise you.
I own a Savage 12FCV .223 Shoots extremely well. With the right custom loads, less than 1/2" groups at 100 yards. Not having bore scoped it, I can't say what it looks like all the way down the barrel. But taking a 7X eye lope, with a bright small flashlight,and looking down the barrel, from the front end, I can see some sort of machine tool chatter marks in the groves. It does build up copper, but after 50+ rounds.
In truth, I'm happy with the rifle and the guys at the range respect me during competition.
I guess the important thing is "how does it shoot" ??
In truth, I'm happy with the rifle and the guys at the range respect me during competition.
I guess the important thing is "how does it shoot" ??
That is pretty normal for a Savage barrel. If it's any consolation, they are very easy to swap yourself to a custom barrel.
The most common occurrence is the "train tracks" tooling marks that run perpendicular to the bore. I believe these marks are from the drilling of the bore hole, but I am not a machinist.
Every factory Savage barrel I've looked down except one in the last 3-4 years has these tooling marks. Some are worse than others. The only one I have left with a factory barrel on it is my Stevens 200 in 223. The rest of mine have various aftermarket barrels on them. My Stevens will shoot into the .4's with my handloads if I'm having a good day. It would not shoot any of the factory ammo I tried in it better than 2". It will not shoot any "max" load anything well. It does it's best with mid range loads. I suspect the lower velocity works better in the rough bore? Shoots too good to mess with success.
They do copper up, some quite badly. The first one I swapped barrels on was a BVSS in 22-250. Very rough bore in that one. It would copper up at 20-25 rounds and sub-moa groups would turn into shotgun patterns quickly. By the time you've fired the 25th shot, you're wasting your time, as you'd never hit a PD. It would take hours of scrubbing to get the copper out. Not fun. I stopped shooting it because I would get so tired of cleaning it. Bought it for a PD rig, so 20 rounds was unacceptable to me. It now wears a McGowen barrel, and I usually run a wet patch at 50-60 rounds down because I want to, not because the accuracy is gone.
My daughter's 243 was the worst one I think I've ever seen. Looked like they machined the barrel with an axe. Never got it to shoot under 2.5" with any load. Would have to hammer a wet patch down the bore with the heel of my hand after 10 shots. It now wears an aftermarket barrel in 257 Roberts.
My buddy just got an LRPV in 223. It also has the typical "train tracks" in the bore. We had it out last Sunday, and he proceeded to cut some one hole groups with some leftover Ultramax remanufactured 68 gr hp's I gave him. These were part of the leftover factory ammo I tried to get my Stevens to shoot. Same ammo went almost 3" groups in my Stevens, but one hole groups in his LRPV.
Same buddy's Choate Tactical 308 has same "train tracks" in bore. Will shoot one hole groups with Varget, Lapua brass, and either Lapua Scenar or Hornady Amax's.
The only way to know is to try it. If it coppers up badly, try the foaming bore cleaners. Those are awesome. Just spray the bores and let them sit, then patch out. No scrubbing. Very satisfied with those cleaning products.
If you want a new barrel, McGowen, Shilen, Pac-Nor, and I believe Kreiger all make drop in Savage replacement barrels which will eliminate the problem entirely.
The most common occurrence is the "train tracks" tooling marks that run perpendicular to the bore. I believe these marks are from the drilling of the bore hole, but I am not a machinist.
Every factory Savage barrel I've looked down except one in the last 3-4 years has these tooling marks. Some are worse than others. The only one I have left with a factory barrel on it is my Stevens 200 in 223. The rest of mine have various aftermarket barrels on them. My Stevens will shoot into the .4's with my handloads if I'm having a good day. It would not shoot any of the factory ammo I tried in it better than 2". It will not shoot any "max" load anything well. It does it's best with mid range loads. I suspect the lower velocity works better in the rough bore? Shoots too good to mess with success.
They do copper up, some quite badly. The first one I swapped barrels on was a BVSS in 22-250. Very rough bore in that one. It would copper up at 20-25 rounds and sub-moa groups would turn into shotgun patterns quickly. By the time you've fired the 25th shot, you're wasting your time, as you'd never hit a PD. It would take hours of scrubbing to get the copper out. Not fun. I stopped shooting it because I would get so tired of cleaning it. Bought it for a PD rig, so 20 rounds was unacceptable to me. It now wears a McGowen barrel, and I usually run a wet patch at 50-60 rounds down because I want to, not because the accuracy is gone.
My daughter's 243 was the worst one I think I've ever seen. Looked like they machined the barrel with an axe. Never got it to shoot under 2.5" with any load. Would have to hammer a wet patch down the bore with the heel of my hand after 10 shots. It now wears an aftermarket barrel in 257 Roberts.
My buddy just got an LRPV in 223. It also has the typical "train tracks" in the bore. We had it out last Sunday, and he proceeded to cut some one hole groups with some leftover Ultramax remanufactured 68 gr hp's I gave him. These were part of the leftover factory ammo I tried to get my Stevens to shoot. Same ammo went almost 3" groups in my Stevens, but one hole groups in his LRPV.
Same buddy's Choate Tactical 308 has same "train tracks" in bore. Will shoot one hole groups with Varget, Lapua brass, and either Lapua Scenar or Hornady Amax's.
The only way to know is to try it. If it coppers up badly, try the foaming bore cleaners. Those are awesome. Just spray the bores and let them sit, then patch out. No scrubbing. Very satisfied with those cleaning products.
If you want a new barrel, McGowen, Shilen, Pac-Nor, and I believe Kreiger all make drop in Savage replacement barrels which will eliminate the problem entirely.
many thanks for everybody's input. i shot the thing sunday with some 69 gr sierras and 52 bergers. after about12 shots going everywhere the 52 bergers with 8208 xbr powder, printed a 3/8 in group!!! a second group was the same! i could not believe a gun with a cobblestone-like bore would shoot like this. this shatters my feeling that bores have to be slick like glass to shoot well. i dreaded cleaning since i expected copper fouling from hell. i could not believe the lack of copper! there was some but it cleaned quickly. i even let it soak overnight with hoppe's and NO blue streaks. my friend will keep this gun. the 69s should shoot with the right powder and seating depth. shoot and learn.[/quote] if i can see you, i can touch you.BANG!
Glad it worked out for you. I have a Savage accu-everything in .223 with a 1 in 9" twist. I never bore scoped it but it did take 75-100 rounds to break it in. It shoots 1/2 MOA with 75 grain A-Max reloads and stays very clean with no copper residue. FYI KG bore products take all the chore out of bore cleaning and made barrel break-in a snap.
an update: shot 69 nosler's yesterday using varget, 25 gr and i was absolutely amazed!! at 25 thou off the lands the little, tiney hole measured .162 in!!!! repeated the 52 bergers with 8208 and 3/8 in again! cleaning with ed's red bore cleaner was quick and easy,bumpy as hell. the copper was again minimal. i still can't believe how this thing shoots. less than 50 rounds and groups with overlapping holes! adjustment of bullet seating depth finds the sweet spot quicker than powder weigh variation. now, let's see if i can get the detachable magazine to feed smoothly. [/quote] if i can see you, i can touch you.BANG!
Very nice! I love that Nosler CC. It even stabilizes in my Mini 14 with a 1:10 twist. Bulk prices to boot. I think you and your Savage have arrived. 
this gun continues to amaze me. yesterday shot steel at 300 yds and, you guessed it, three shots by two shooters splatted a 1 in group with 52 bergers and 8208. one third moa in less than 50 rounds! i may have to buy a savage...can't believe i said that. [/quote] if i can see you, i can touch you.
bang1
bang1
Upgrades & Donations
This Forum's expenses are primarily paid by member contributions. You can upgrade your Forum membership in seconds. Gold and Silver members get unlimited FREE classifieds for one year. Gold members can upload custom avatars.
Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.
You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.
To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.
Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.
You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.
To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.