Savage .223 Expecting too much?

[TroyMN]

I bought a Savage VT-11 because I heard ALL the statements those Savages really shoot. Well it did! I am very happy with it! The 55 grain shoot about .5-.7 the 75 gr HPBT shoot about .7-1.0
So I bought a Savage Model 12 LRPV in .223 with the 1-7 twist. With the 80 Berger VLD at 2810 fps is has about the same ballistics as my .308 with the 175 SMK but half the cost to shoot and maybe it shoot less than .5 compare to the .308 mostly under 1 MOA. I have only had the LRVP for two days and started with load data from previous owner.
Here are the groups from the VT-11







Here is the 12 LRPV




bottom two VT-11 top LRPV

So the VT-11 is a $599 list gun the LRPV is a $1400 list gun just was expecting more. The previous owner is also offering up the Redding Comp Type S dies, maybe I need more neck tension to help tighten the group up... any thoughts or something I did not notice on the groups?

 

[boltman223]

Troy, I wouldn't think you are expecting too much and would think the lrpv could do better. Personally the first thing I would try is some cci primers. I have never had good luck with wsr primers in my 223 with the 80's. Then maybe try some varget or H4895.

Do you know how many rounds have been through it?

 

[Jet]

Troy

Fiddling with the action screws and adjusting the torque settings may help as well. Link below may help you out.

http://www.accurateshooter.com/technical-articles/savage-action-screw-torque-tuning/

Good Shooting

Jet

 

[MGYSGT]

I put together a Mod. 12 and was a little disappointed with the 80's. I started playing with seating depth. Cut the MOA group size considerably.

Tom

 

[TroyMN]

Thanks for the input, sounds like seating depth may help. Test touching to .010 out?
How far apart .003 ? With the uneven seating pressure ( new lapua match all just expanded to round necks) the uneven seating pressure caused 1.924-1.930 seating variation. I separated them and shot within the group they matched.
Most groups were new brass the last groups it did FL resize.

Is anyone getting .25-.50 MOA wig standard dies? Mine is Hornandy FL (.002 bump )with the seating die for vld and micrometer

What about the vertical two group in the one?

I forgot the groups from yesterday

 

[wrangler5]

I tried this process http://www.eabco.com/Berger%20Bullet%20Jump%20Seating%20Method.html and found my best groups at 0.065 of setback in my Marlin 223 1:9 with both Sierra 69 SMKs and Berger 70 VLDs. Shot a 0.34 MOA 5-shot group last weekend - 200 yds, cold bore but dirty from previous day's shooting to sight in new scope, from a bench with a Harris bipod. (Loads were assembled using Lapua cases fired many, Varget, Rem 7.5 primers, a Lee collet neck sizing die and Lee dead length seater die in a Lee Challenger breech lock press.)

Before you start, though, read this article http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2009/03/berger-tips-for-loading-vld-bullets/ , which is a follow on to the other one and discusses the risk of increased pressures from too much bullet setback in small cases.

 

[TroyMN]

I tried this process http://www.eabco.com/Berger%20Bullet%20Jump%20Seating%20Method.html and found my best groups at 0.065 of setback in my Marlin 223 1:9 with both Sierra 69 SMKs and Berger 70 VLDs. Shot a 0.34 MOA 5-shot group last weekend - 200 yds, cold bore but dirty from previous day's shooting to sight in new scope, from a bench with a Harris bipod.

Before you start, though, read this article http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2009/03/berger-tips-for-loading-vld-bullets/ , which is a follow on to the other one and discusses the risk of increased pressures from too much bullet setback in small cases.

Yes I used that process for my 6.5
I fear there will not be enought case capacity in the little .223 to allow me to keep 2800 fps with a .0120 jump. You can see above .010 in, .010,.020,.030 have been tested

Maybe test the " VLD commonly work best .010 in or more"

 

[jonbearman]

How much time before shooting each round? Clean that barrel with jb bore paste or one of the others.Start over with the testing trying h322 or benchmark as well.I have had great luck with those two.I also like blc-2 or h335. The receiver torque article works well with enough patience.What are you shooting off of like what bag and what rest? If on a bi pod loose it for a solid front rest when testing.Some bullets like as much as .050 jump so don't be afraid to seat them out farther in a factory barrel.I use Remington 7 1/2 primers as I get the best performance with them or tula primers.Make sure of how much neck tension you are running.I like .004 thou as it works for me.

 

[TroyMN]

The constants in my testing will need to be 80 VLD (1000 box) and RL 15, powder is not always easy to find and I have this and also started the testing with that.
I was going to keep the WSR primer but I bet I could find some others to buy.
Primer, Seating depth and neck tension will be my focus
Also check the action screws.
Sound fair?
Sand bag rest
it was very clean barrel but I could try the bore paste ....? I want a load that shoots dirty, not just in a cleaner barrel. I have a gun like that

 

[mattri]

What if your barrel doesn't like the 80gr VLDs?

What other bullets have you tried?

 

[boltman223]

The constants in my testing will need to be 80 VLD (1000 box) and RL 15, powder is not always easy to find and I have this and also started the testing with that.
I was going to keep the WSR primer but I bet I could find some others to buy.
Primer, Seating depth and neck tension will be my focus
Also check the action screws.
Sound fair?
Sand bag rest
it was very clean barrel but I could try the bore paste ....? I want a load that shoots dirty, not just in a cleaner barrel. I have a gun like that

I would try different primers. I've had primers make a big difference in group size. At least try it then you will know.

 

[seymour fish]

Want to say find best seating depth, use .2 gr increments on the powder, try 77 SMK, but have a notion it may reveal bad tool marks on borescope. Have seen some ragged ones past 3 yrs. Luck of the draw

 

[Travelor]

The 3 screw Savage actions are VERY finicky about the tension on the tang screw. Try backing it off until it is just barely touching the trigger guard and I think this will help your groups more than anything else.

Look at the bright side of this suggestion before disregarding it - it is cheap!

 

[TroyMN]

The 3 screw Savage actions are VERY finicky about the tension on the tang screw. Try backing it off until it is just barely touching the trigger guard and I think this will help your groups more than anything else.

Look at the bright side of this suggestion before disregarding it - it is cheap!

Going to try that!
A thought, the LRPV has the aluminum bedding block, where the 12 FTR and 12 target do not, right? Would that make the screw tension less important?

 

[k80skeet]

I have a 223 LRPV it has a 1 in 9 twist and it shoot in the low 2's and high 1's all the time. I set the front screw at 45# and the back 2 at 35# and it works fine with 25.0gr W748 and a 69gr Sierra Match kings Federal 205M primer bullet set right on the lands. I use Remington and Lapua brass. Not any difference in group size. Both work fine. I also have a LRPV in 6mmBR and it shoots in the 1's it has a 1 in 12 twist.

 

[madderg]

If your going to stick with the factory barrel, and there is no reason you should...re-crown it. And do a proper bedding of the action. When you bed the action put some tape on the rear...it does not like full contact, that's why the screw tension is always less on the rear screw...good shooting, Gary.

 

[Travelor]

TroyMN. no idea why it works, but it really affects the accuracy.

http://www.accurateshooter.com/technical-articles/savage-action-screw-torque-tuning/

 

[moorepower]

Scim bedding the action will help, and make screw torque less of an issue.

 

[TroyMN]

Did the action screw adjustment and test. Cleaned the bore well, very little to no copper. Had limited ammo with the WSR primers. They were FL sized with a Hornady die, but I have the Redding type s comp dies coming. The previous owner had them and will be using the specs with the same dies so I hope this will solve its self
The action screw test, I could not see a big change the best groups were with a slight variance on the virgin brass with a seeming light amount of seating pressure. And the FL sized with 24.8 gr of the RL15 vs 24.5. BUT if you shoot enough 3 shots groups one is bound to come in small..... Not really sure the 25.8 RL15 is a fluke or the missing piece
Here is today's groups



Here is the group from Brian, I will be using the Rem primers and the same dies for the next trip to the range.

 

[boltman223]

Are you shooting 80 or 90gr vld's?