Savage 12 6BR Initial Cleaing and Bore Pics -Ouch!?

[Oldschool1]

Well prior to even installation of the bolt, I am in the process of cleaning the bore - I've not put the bolt in it yet until all cleaned and lubed.

I am a little surprised at the amount of copper in the barrel - which I assume is test firing from Savage. Though I have a 22-250 in Ruger 77V and a 7mm mag in Rem 700 and I don't get this much copper after even 50 rounds at near max velocity down the tube.

Below is a set of patches that came out. Top row is KG-12 copper solvent, next row is sea foam (carbon cleaner), and the blue batches are Montana Cu Killer.

Barrel pics are Cu remaining after all the patches below were run through, and liberal wait time between patches. Pics are reduced in size. Hope you can still see the circumferential cutter marks.

Cleaning with Lucas guide, Dewey 22CA44 (coated rod - aluminum end and jag - no copper on rod), and Sinclair cotton patches 1.25" diameter.

I my Ruger 77V or Rem700, or for that matter any rifle I've had has ever shown this much copper and this difficult to remove.

Soooooo

How many times does the factory test fire a rifle?
Is this inordinately a bad "rough" barrel?
Par for a Savage?
Any idea who makes the barrel?
Thoughts?

Thanks,

Paul

 

[comagutsa]

Being a new barrel they do this
Now some will agree and some will not agree with this next bit, its up to you but if me i would run it in (not everyone believes in barrel run in but i do and what you got to lose besides time and 20 odd rounds)
1 shot clean x5
2 shot clean x3
3 shot clean x2
5 shots clean
By the end of that you should find it wont leave any copper behind
If you find the its not leaving copper behind at any stage stop and shoot as per normal

If i spend thousands of $ on a new gun i dont want to take a chance by not running it in. Whether or not barrel maker says you dont need to.. peace of mind for me

 

[Matt P]

Typical Savage barrel, look at the machine marks across the lands
Matt P

 

[Jet]

Paul

I'm not bashing Savage here so don't take it that way. As far as how many shots are fired I would call Savage and ask them. If the gun shoots well don't sweat the visual imperfections you see and shoot the snot out of it.

I've looked through (bore scoped) a few Savage barrels and they all have had a lot of tooling marks. The rifling looks like railroad tracks. Their barrels are not smooth so all those imperfections will be stripping material off your bullets.

Shooting a "standard barrel break in" on a Savage cannot be viewed the same as breaking in a custom barrel. Most custom barrels will have minor imperfections usually not visible to a bore scope.

I have a few Savage rifle and they all take 20-30 rds fired on a clean bore to settle in and shoot smaller. I think this is due to getting copper back in all the tooling marks and filling in all the low spots in the barrel. Every one of them shoots very well for a factory gun once they get 20-30 rds through them I never clean them like I do my custom barrels.

Good shooting

Rich

 

[Jet]

Also, if you have access to a bore camera or scope take a look through the barrel

 

[1raggedhole]

I have the same experience as Matt and Jet. That being said, I shot an LRPV a couple hundred rounds per day on p-dogs and only cleaned at the end of the day. Surprisingly is took about the same number of CR-10 patches to clean it out as other factory rifles. The tool marks look bad, but after some fouling rounds it doesn't seem to build up much more.

 

[gtl1946]

I have the same experience as Matt and Jet. That being said, I shot an LRPV a couple hundred rounds per day on p-dogs and only cleaned at the end of the day. Surprisingly is took about the same number of CR-10 patches to clean it out as other factory rifles. The tool marks look bad, but after some fouling rounds it doesn't seem to build up much more.

I wouldn't suggest doing this on a custom barrel but on a factory barrel have you thought about looking into the David Tubbs Fire lapping system . To lap out the valleys , NO , but to smooth out ,lap, any high jagged edges , what's the harm ?

 

[Oldschool1]

Hi all

Thanks for all the detailed insight.

I will call savage..... data is good.

Guess I will.plY it as it goes ~ I was.t to get the barrel to a point where it is less time to clean to shoot

Now would a gunsmith lap the barrel with a compound ~ but even doing that isn't it wearing the lands more aggressively than the rest ~ essentially wearing the barrel out

Lastly what is savage philosophy for crude barrels

Thx
Paul

 

[savagedasher]

This is why we all need bore scopes . Larry

 

[Ggmac]

If it doesn't group THEN worry about it !

 

[Barossa_222]

I purchased a LRPV 6BR not too long ago. When I picked the rifle up and inspected the barrel it was very rough and looked really pitted, there was also a ring groove cut about 1/4" in from the muzzle. Looked like when they crowned it swarf had gotten stuck and casued the damage. I returned the gun and they swapped it for another. The new rifle had the same pitting and roughness in the muzzle end of the gun. I ran this in using a method recommended to me by a mate and the copper falls out of the gun. It shoots 1/4" groups at 300 yards with berger projectiles and one hole groups at 200 using 75gr vmax pills, so although it looked like a sows ear it shoots like a silk purse!

 

[DCRYDER]

It shoots 1/4" groups at 300 yards with berger projectiles and one hole groups at 200 using 75gr vmax pills, so although it looked like a sows ear it shoots like a silk purse!View attachment 982353 View attachment 982354 View attachment 982353 View attachment 982354

You need to get that rifle to the next match that you can. That's unbelievably accurate!!!!!!!!

Really, that's unbelievable!!!!

 

[DCRYDER]

Seriously now to the OP. Even custom cut rifled barrels copper up badly the first 6 or so shots. I'm talking about 1 shot and clean 6x.

IMO you went about the cleaning order wrong. With only 1 shot down the tube the copper is against the steel and the carbon on top of the copper. So the carbon cutter should have been used first followed by the copper cutter.


When I break in a new barrel I shoot 1 shot, wet patch with Butch's, a few passes with bronze brush with butches and dry patch. The carbon should be pretty much gone. Now to get rid of the copper. I like to either use Break-Free foaming cleaner 2x or STRONG copper cutter like Sweets 7.62 and a nickel plated jag so I don't get blue patches from the brass jags.

Actually going by the pics I would be more worried about the crown. With a 90* target crown the lands should be more defined. I would get a competent gunsmith with the proper tooling shorten the muzzle 1/2" to get rid of the bad tooling marks and cut a new burr-free 90* target crown.

My .02

 

[Swatman05]

What's the max range for the 6BR cartridge? Would it be suitable for PRS matches?

 

[AckleymanII]

You will never lap out the machine marks in a factory barrel, learn to adjust to the fouling issues. Obviously, Savage has come up with a very good way to chamber a barrel.

I used Montana Copper cream on a barrel like this along with one of their plastic brushes, and cleaned up in a hurry without a lot of screwing around. Montana Copper Cream is like JB suspended in oil.

I suspect that if you play with primers and seating depth a little more, those bullets will be dumping in the same hole.

Congratulations on a fine shooting rifle, but sometimes it is hard to love a barrel that just shoots fantastic but fouls. I had a Savage 116 in 7 mag that would shoot 1/4" groups or less with a 140g at 3250 for 7 shots, then went to 3/4" groups. The barrel was rough as a corn cob, but would shoot like crazy for 7 shots where the copper fouling went wild. Solution: 15 strokes with Montana Copper Cream on their plastic brush, followed with a 15 minute soaking of Montana Extreme Copper killer as a test, cleaning was done. The rifle had a Sharp shooter trigger, pillar bedded, Bushnell 6500 scope, and you could shoot a humming bird at 300 yards with it...for 7 shots after one fouling shot.

Lots of informal club matches are being won with Savage target rifles, they will challenge your traditional cleaning methods however. I don't have the patience for all that soaking and waiting, and I adjusted my cleaning methods accordingly...the Hawkeye sees all!

 

[Frankr]

well around 16 years ago savage had some good barrels...smooth no copper and shot great. My buddy still has a heavy barreled 22/250 from them days and I have seen it shoot .199 5 shots at 100 yards and then I seen it shoot 3 shots in the same hole at 200 yards...you need a custom 6BR to out shoot it..I had one built so I could out shoot it..It seems they have gone cheaper on the newer ones. I had a model 10 predator hunter in 6.5 creedmoore and the inside of the barrel looked like it was knurled I called savage and they said they don't care what it looks like if it meets their accuracy requirement they would do nothing about it..It shot well .350 at 100 yards with a few groups in the high .200's under 1/2 moa was easy. It coppered some but not real bad. I just worried that the high spots would wear off and then it would shoot like crap at 500 rounds but I had around 1k threw it when I sold it and it was still shooting good.
shoot it..

 

[DanSavage]

Me and my friend both find it comical that Savage Arms has to straighten their barrels,,, and even more funny that they ADVERTISE IT!! Every Savage barrel that I have seen has a rail road barrel. They can shoot very very good though.If it doesn't perform to your expectations re barrel it and don't look back.

All my rifles are Savage's and I only shoot aftermarket barrel's on them. I have a nice array of different calibers and brands of barrels on the shelf.

It is easy and very inexpenssive to rebarrel a Savage all by your self.

 

[1raggedhole]

both find it comical that Savage Arms has to straighten their barrels

I'm not a barrel expert, but during my visit to the Mauser museum in Oberndorf Germany, they have one of the original barrel straightening devices. Every barrel made there was straightened by hand; that number is in the millions. So I guess straightening is not so strange. They did mention that only a few people had the knowledge to do it correctly!

 

[Steve Ladino]

My 2 cents worth: No on final finish, my 2003 22-250 FV 12 shot like crazy but coppered badly, my new Savage factory 22-250 un fired take off heavy 12 FV barrel I just bought did after shooting one shot and cleaning for several shots then shooting two and cleaning for a few and then shooting three and cleaning does not copper much but is requiring more work to get into the two's. The crown looks great on my barrel as I felt no need to touch it at all. I have heard that Savage was sold by Mr. Coburn a few years ago and under His watch they gained a reputation that could not be paralleled by any other factory builder at least in the USA. I believe. I also believe that the photos show excessive copper fouling even for a factory gun.

 

[snert]

shoot it, clean it. if it doesnt settle down after 100, buy a new barrel. easy.

Some barrels shoot good despite the appearance...and some shoot good dirty. The fact is, we just want them to shoot good right? So if it does, consider it good and check off another "done" on the list of things to do.