same brass in 2 rifles

[Bert]

So i just got my second 6mm br. And started doing load development using brass that had been fired in my first 6mm BR. Lets call them rifle A and B. Both rifles are built on the same actions and barrels chambered by same smith with the same reamer about a year apart. Rifle A always shot very well low .2s and better some days when i did my part. (this is a tactical rifle not a bench gun). Anyway rifle B using brass fired in rifle A. will not shoot better than .3 but today when i shot some groups with new brass in rifle B groups under .1. I am full length sizing the brass in each rifle bumping the shoulder .0015 -.002. Near as i can measure the head space is the same on the 2 rifles. So the question do i need to run brass in 1 rifle only? The brass out of rifle A has been fired 6 times and i think annealing would help but i am not sure? Rifle A is at the smith having a new barrel chambered right now so i cant shoot groups with it right now. Any experience with this would be a great help thanks.

 

[fdshuster]

Bert: I have several 6BR (and 6ppc) chamberings that were cut with the same reamer (mine), so the brass is interchangable, but even at that, I prefer to keep them seperated. The only exception being if one of the barrels is shot out, I may then try to use that brass in one of the other chamberings. They usually work fine, with a little tweaking.

I do find small differences in headspace lengths between them, and bullet seating depths will vary, especially over time, as they accumulate a different number of rounds fired.

As an example, one barrel was chambered by Gunsmith "A" and headspace length is 1.159", on the long side. Another barrel chambered by Gunsmith "B", using the same reamer, with no cuts in-between, has a headspace length of 1.154".

Another part of the equation is that one barrel "likes" the 107 SMK's and the other the 105 Bergers.

All reasons why I keep the brass seperated.

 

[Bert]

Thankyou.... fired brass out of these two rifle measure the same with shoulder gauge. But i am sure there are small differences. The advice and first hand experience is helpful. I will keep my brass separate from here on out. Thanks again for the info.

 

[Bert]

So i have a good question. What do you do when you rebarrel? Replace all the brass? FL resize fire form and go? Thanks

 

[fdshuster]

In my case, when I see a barrel is nearing "the end" I continue to use the old brass, so when the barrel is "done", so is the brass. I avoid loading a new batch (box of 20) of brass for an "old" barrel, knowing that the barrel will soon be unusable.

If it's newer brass with a low count of times reloaded and it will not chamber in the new barrel, (bolt will not close), I'll run it through a small base body die & that almost always works.

I've had some very experienced people tell me " New chamber, new brass", and that's good advice, but it's hard for me to throw away Lapua that has tight primer pockets, good neck tension, etc.

At .84 + cents each I want to get my money's worth out of them.

 

[johara1]

I use the same brass in all the guns and even the the same loaded rds. All have the same chamber reamer,so they shoot the same load and they perform the same, they shoot small and are very consistent. all brass is the same lot, all bullets are the same lot, all primers and powder is the same lot. The only thing that changes is the actions and barrels and stocks..... jim

 

[gmorganal]

I once had a 6x284 that was toast after 900 rounds, but my 300 rounds of brass had only been fired three times. I sent a couple of fired cases to my gunsmith who was chambering a new 6x284 and asked him to use the fired cases as a headspace gauge. I don't know if this is good thinking, but it has worked great for me.

 

[BoydAllen]

I have several barrels for one of my 6PPCs, and they were all chambered by the same smith, with my reamer. The difference in headspace is a maximum of .001. I interchange brass between them, with no problem. I do keep brass in sets so that all the cases in a set will be similarly work hardened. This keeps shoulder bump at a given die setting consistent. Another thing that I sort by, within groups of cases is the amount of force required to seat bullets. If a case feel different from others, I will use it for fouling shots, or if there are a number that are similar, I will use them together to shoot a group. One thing that I have found, in all calibers, is that if bolt close feel is different, within a group, that accuracy will be degraded. Because I have sets of cases that have different amounts of work hardening, I take care to set my FL die each time that I start a loading/shooting session, removing the die when I pack up to go home. (I load at the range for my PPCs.) A couple of times I have forgotten to back off my die, and reset it, when working with newly fire formed cases, and ended up pushing the shoulders of a couple of cases back .0035, instead of .001 or less. This is because the die had been set for old brass, that had more spring back. After that, I started taking the die out of the press, so that I would have to reset it the next time, avoiding the problem. I should add that it does not take me very long to set my die. I have a Lee lock ring locked on the die by a Hornady ring above it, and I know where the gap in the Hornady ring should be in relation to the press, for various settings.This way, all I have to do is to screw the die down till the O ring on the bottom of the Lee ring makes contact, advance the die slightly till the gap in the Hornady is a my longest setting, and start sizing and checking my first case, using a gauge that came with my Harrell's die. It only takes a minute or so. Also, from time to time, during the day, I will check bump, because I know that as cases harden, the die will have to be reset (very slightly) to maintain the same bump. I have a friend that tends to look at setting his dies like it is a major event, and if the setting is a static thing. I take a different approach, using shoulder bump as my guide, making changes as needed to get what I am looking for. One thing that I should mention is that I leave my cases unsized between shooting sessions, and fire and load them in rotation. I keep them in ammo boxes in the same order that I put them in the loading block, and work through the set from beginning to end,and then back to the first one. Also, if a case falls so that its neck is dented, I use it for a fouling shot the next time, because experience has taught me that even if I work out the dent, and resize the case, the shot will not go where it would have. If the neck is bent in a way that will not come out even, after firing and sizing, I throw it away. Of course this is more of a problem with cases that have been turned for my .262 chamber neck, which are all less than .0085 in thickness. What I really need to do is to put a small thin rug in my kit, and place it so that cases that fall hit it, instead of the concrete.

 

[tenring]

My smith makes a rough drawing of the barrel after it is chambered, with critical measurements in place. He keeps it in his files. With this, I can have a barrel drop shipped to him and he does not need the action for headspacing. I can interchange brass, but don't because I don't want confusion about which reload goes in the right barrel and it helps keep my round count in each correct.

 

[johara1]

If you anneal every time and full length size every time everything remains the same every time.............. jim

 

[Bert]

Guys thanks for all the info. I do keep track of # of times fired for the brass. But also ordered a bench source machine today. And even with the annealing of the brass i am still going to keep track of # of times fired.

 

[LCazador]

If you anneal every time and full length size every time everything remains the same every time.............. jim

No it does not . After 45 years of doing this custom barrel thing in the most consistant manner I know , nothing remains the same ! If you bought all the barrel steel you could , used the same barrel making tools and process , and machined all the the reamers at the same time , you still couldn't make the same each and every time !!

 

[PALarson]

I have 3 target 6 XC's, each was chambered with the same reamer to as close tolerance as possible, even with that I find a slight difference with each gun. I tried to interchange brass and found it to be a poor plan. Now I keep all brass separated to its particular rifle, groups are always smaller.
Paul Larson

 

[johara1]

Paul, Are all the chambers done by the same person?....jim

 

[PALarson]

Yes, I do my own smithing, have been installing barrels on target/bench rifles for almost 20 years.
Paul L

 

[johara1]

I have no less than 5 barrels done with the same reamer and in different actions and all cases will interchange.....jim

 

[lrgoodger]

The prairie dog in this photo was shot with a cartridge that had been fired in my other 6BR, both chambered with my custom 6BR reamer from Dave Manson. I had both guns with me and had 300 rounds loaded that had been fired and neck sized for each. I had kept them separated up until this hunt. When I ran out of ammo for the gun in the photo (Bat action and Bartlein barrel), I just started using the ammo for the Pierce action with the Krieger barrel. It didn't have a flat 3" fore-end and I felt I had a better chance at that long range shot with the added stability of the benchrest stock. As you can see, interchanging the ammo didn't seem to hamper anything. Ammo for both guns was loaded the same, and both shoot it very accurately.