SA284
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284winner
Silver $$ Contributor
I don't remember Hornady having problems with bullets fragmenting before making it on target during the Amax years. People claim it's the new ELD but I think it's the tight bores faster twists that's causing it. Bullets are getting heavier, longer and require faster barrels. I think Hornady jackets have stayed the same thickness unlike Berger. Berger have thicker jackets keeping them together. Yes, Hornady needs to follow what works best rather than focusing on a poly tipped bullet. Lapua, Berger and Sierra have succeeded with alot less bullet failures than Hornady. I think they should read between the lines and fix what the issue really is. Either way, I'm ok with Hornady bullets as I've never had a blow up. I like the price and being a hunter, there bullets never failed me. If it keeps prices down, it doesn't matter either way as there are many other bullets that seem to be preffered over the ELDs.
I went on a journey tying to find the original 162 HPBT
# 28405 my Uncle shot in his Hart 7mm Mauser. Scary
accurate for a hunter. Dug out the old Hornady Volume
#2, 1975 printing. It lists this bullet at a BC of .725.
Some where in these forums there is supposed to be a
shooter winning a major event back in 2009 with the
#28405. I'll research that later. Doing a quick bing search
has a note from Midway saying out of stock, one time run !!
I guess I'll call Hornady and shake some branches.
As I mentioned earlier, I'll be testing mainly 160 class bullets.
The Barnes fell in at 171 grains so it's at the outer edge for
the time being. For a bullet that sucks at sorting, it's got
more promise then expected. I'll keep using it for powder
testing when the Ramshot Hunter shows up. I set aside some
168 bergers for this powder also.....It will be a good week to
stay inside and form the new cases Rardoin sent me. Heat and
humidity will be nasty this week.
# 28405 my Uncle shot in his Hart 7mm Mauser. Scary
accurate for a hunter. Dug out the old Hornady Volume
#2, 1975 printing. It lists this bullet at a BC of .725.
Some where in these forums there is supposed to be a
shooter winning a major event back in 2009 with the
#28405. I'll research that later. Doing a quick bing search
has a note from Midway saying out of stock, one time run !!
I guess I'll call Hornady and shake some branches.
As I mentioned earlier, I'll be testing mainly 160 class bullets.
The Barnes fell in at 171 grains so it's at the outer edge for
the time being. For a bullet that sucks at sorting, it's got
more promise then expected. I'll keep using it for powder
testing when the Ramshot Hunter shows up. I set aside some
168 bergers for this powder also.....It will be a good week to
stay inside and form the new cases Rardoin sent me. Heat and
humidity will be nasty this week.
284winner
Silver $$ Contributor
BC isn't criteria for accuracy. A high BC bullets CAN be the most accurate in a particular group of bullets but many more times than the highest BC bullet is the most accurate, the ones under those tend to be. Depending on range, that's just how it works out. I'm sure these aren't things you don't already know and I think back in the 70s, Hornady's BC numbers were much less reliable than today. I'd say that 162 HPBT match bullet was closer to .6 even upper .5s. It's listed as .61 currently. Today were seeing the absolute highest BCs by Hornady and they are reliable numbers.
I use those old hornadys in my 284 win and they are very accurate and easy to tune. Hornady discontinued those 162 hpbt about a year ago. wish I stocked up on more when I had a chance they are a good whitetail bullet. have the barnes 171s here just waiting for it to cool down a little but early attemps have shown some promise
284winner
Silver $$ Contributor
They do perform well on deer ?
They say target bullets are not meant for game. All I can
say it was a dead flop if that 7mm Mauser was lined up
with them #28405's. I miss all that meat he used to smoke
and that Jerky he was famous for.
Spent some time resizing and polishing draw bushings for
the SA284 may need to add another step in process. This
Norma brass is harder then the Hornady's I formed up. I do
not want to anneal during the process. Too soft and things
buckle and get wrecked !!
And speaking of wrecked.....Saved an old wreck .284, testing
the draw bushings as I finished them. Not what I had planned
but I had these .257 Black Jacks I bought early on from the
first run. So I got side tracked from working on the SA284
cases and came up with this.....There's always a madness to
my method......
Attachments
284winner
Silver $$ Contributor
Match bullets are deadly on big game animals. It's a very controversial topic but one that I don't even pay attention to. I've killed dozens of big animals with Amax, SMKs and Scenars. All dropped within 2-3 steps of being hit. Most on impact. Damage is extreme on some and minimal on others internally. Depends on where the shot it placed. I use Nosler Partitions and other similar design bullets and still love them for closer shots under 500 yards. Beyond that, it's Match bullets in most cases.
There's always a need, that's why we wild cat. In more then
one case (pun intended) more effective and efficient cartridges
have been conjured from shortening the parent. Would be kind
of nice to eject a live round when heading back to the truck
from a hunt without have to pull the bolt when your hands are
near frozen. Everything has purpose. You just need to be willing
to look for it, and don't settle on the beaten path. That's my
philosophy. It's also one hell of a hobby
In the meantime.....The Covid-19 truck is holding up my powder
shipment !!
Well sort of back on track.....The new Norma cases that
Rardoin sent, has been a bit of a fight to get them die
formed !! The Hornady's went well considering. I ended
up adding a few more steps to iron the shoulders out.
Thicker, and softer brass seem's to be the culprit. I did
get a good batch done to get out to the range and get
the fire forming done. Well again more of a slight snag.
They did'nt sharpen up like the Hornady brass did. I just
ran them a second time during some powder workups.
The Ramshot Hunter came in, and I basically started where
I left off with Staball. Did not need to burn thru resources
to get where I needed to be. I dropped down one half grain
then went up .2 at a time. Groups were looking fair right off
the bat. I hit 52.2 grains, and just over 2800 fps with the 171
barnes, and headed home to do some cherry picking.
Weighing out and finding 10 formed Norma cases alike, BR2
Primers, the 171 Match Burners .015 off the lands. and the
52.2 grains of Ramshot Hunter, has me more then ball parked
That load is about as perfect as a 95% fill you can get. The 300
yard target does look a little phuggly , but most of it is on me.
Mirage was getting up there but I could still see the dot after
dialing way down from 40 power......Only one thing of concern.
This powder is pretty sooty !! If I can get down to Spartansburg
and shoot some under 1/3 MOA's, at 500 yards I'll buy a coal
shovel to clean the barrel.....
Rardoin sent, has been a bit of a fight to get them die
formed !! The Hornady's went well considering. I ended
up adding a few more steps to iron the shoulders out.
Thicker, and softer brass seem's to be the culprit. I did
get a good batch done to get out to the range and get
the fire forming done. Well again more of a slight snag.
They did'nt sharpen up like the Hornady brass did. I just
ran them a second time during some powder workups.
The Ramshot Hunter came in, and I basically started where
I left off with Staball. Did not need to burn thru resources
to get where I needed to be. I dropped down one half grain
then went up .2 at a time. Groups were looking fair right off
the bat. I hit 52.2 grains, and just over 2800 fps with the 171
barnes, and headed home to do some cherry picking.
Weighing out and finding 10 formed Norma cases alike, BR2
Primers, the 171 Match Burners .015 off the lands. and the
52.2 grains of Ramshot Hunter, has me more then ball parked
That load is about as perfect as a 95% fill you can get. The 300
yard target does look a little phuggly , but most of it is on me.
Mirage was getting up there but I could still see the dot after
dialing way down from 40 power......Only one thing of concern.
This powder is pretty sooty !! If I can get down to Spartansburg
and shoot some under 1/3 MOA's, at 500 yards I'll buy a coal
shovel to clean the barrel.....
My earlier in the thread testing with R-23, showed the same.
Accurate, and dirty. I stopped testing it only because I was
starting to crunch powder badly with no real gain worth chasing.
in the 168/171 gr bullet weights.
Not much going on this weekend so I plan to finish sorting the
Barnes bullets. All the outlyers will be used for forming and
trigger time. Sunday has some storms rolling thru, so I'll be
back on die case forming. This coming week looks like a stretch
of decent weather, so I plan on getting down to Spartansburg Pa
and their 500 yard range.
Gary,
Just came across this...
Didn't realize you had this thread going on here. Was going to email you this weekend. Glad things have been going well with this project! That Hunter/Barnes combo is looking good. Post 500 yard results when you get them.
Thanks for all the great info!
Ethan
Just came across this...
Didn't realize you had this thread going on here. Was going to email you this weekend. Glad things have been going well with this project! That Hunter/Barnes combo is looking good. Post 500 yard results when you get them.
Thanks for all the great info!
Ethan
Hey Ethan !!.....Your work is doing well !!
I have not gotmuch done lately other then forming cases for the next round
of fire forming. The brass is slightly holding me back. Have a few
too many not fully formed, and don't have enough to cherry pick
for Sparta. I'm having my Son get a neck reamer ground to my
specs at his work place. Gov work is alive and well !!
. I mayget another barrel and have you shoulder it, and keep this one
just for working things up.....The Barnes 171 Match burners have
been shooting the best. Trying out the Hunter powder is proving
no fluke. Going to order in more Berger 168's and try them with
Hunter. Maybe get some 180 Hybrids just to log them in the book.
Other then that, I'm probably looking at a couple of weeks before
heading to Sparta.
Get that mill up to speed yet, and that (cough) barrel device ??
We'll talk soon....
Well Ethan and I did some major trading. In the trade I aquired
a 100 count box of Berger .284 180 Hybrids. With the testing
done with the 168's and 171's using Ramshot Hunter, I've been
doing some low tests with this powder and the 180's. I'm finding
initially the same as the earlier tests but with wider flat spots ??
Looks like I will hit 2800 fps with Hunter with no pressure problems.
I'm loading 10 rounds tonight for tomorrows session, then see
where I juggle the load from there.....As I was working the load up,
I did a side by side using BR2's and WLR's. The BR2's on average
are giving me 9 fps more velocity per 2/10th's grains. In the 2600
range the WLR's had the best groupings. As I was hitting 2725,
the WLRs fell apart and the BR2's tightened up. Seems as the
pressure builds, the BR2's and Hunter marry up better. I'll see
if it increases that way after tomorrows test.
a 100 count box of Berger .284 180 Hybrids. With the testing
done with the 168's and 171's using Ramshot Hunter, I've been
doing some low tests with this powder and the 180's. I'm finding
initially the same as the earlier tests but with wider flat spots ??
Looks like I will hit 2800 fps with Hunter with no pressure problems.
I'm loading 10 rounds tonight for tomorrows session, then see
where I juggle the load from there.....As I was working the load up,
I did a side by side using BR2's and WLR's. The BR2's on average
are giving me 9 fps more velocity per 2/10th's grains. In the 2600
range the WLR's had the best groupings. As I was hitting 2725,
the WLRs fell apart and the BR2's tightened up. Seems as the
pressure builds, the BR2's and Hunter marry up better. I'll see
if it increases that way after tomorrows test.
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