Russian Primers

[45bpcr]

I know this has been discussed in different threads before but please bear with me.
I love modern rifles. I have many of them from Mil-surps to "Modern Sporting Rifles to Factory F/TR ect et al.
My passion is BPCR rifles. Black powder and cast lead bullets out to 1000 yds.
The current trend in this type of shooting is to use Large pistol primers with a paper wad between the primer and the powder charge. It cuts down on the primer brisance.

I've read here about the Wolf and Tula primers and have wondered how they stack up to, say, CCI BR2's or Federal Gold Medal?

45Bpcr

 

[Grimstod]

Some people prefer them but I have not been able to try any. Get yourself a 100 and give em a go. Never hurts to experiment. This forum is mostly about that (experimenting, albeit safely)

 

[stool]

a freind shoots inline black powder and perfers the russian shotgun primer...

 

[Cakes]

For f-class I prefer tula over br2/4's. Seems to give me a slightly smaller ES on my pet loads and doesn't hurt they are at a better price-point. Eric in DL

 

[watercam]

Google German Salazar Blog and find his rifleman's blog. Search his articles for Primer Test. He did two separate tests - one small rifle and one large rifle - where he stacked every available primer against each other for ES, SD and on paper results at 600 yards with a match rifle. As far as the Russian primers, the Wolf/Tula/PMC primer had the lowest flash (he photographed each and every primer flash fired from a modified barreled receiver) and very low SD numbers. That being said, the Winchester primers and Federal Magnum primers which had the largest flashes gave very good on-paper results when fired at 600.
I recently tested the Tula's vs. BR2s and Fed. 205Ms and found them very close in every way. Velocity with the Tula's was ever so slightly less (perhaps not even statistically different) and accuracy at 300 yards was, for all intents, equal. Will be shooting them at 1000 next week.
Interestingly, I have been shooting the Lapua Palma/small primer .308 brass for some years now and have loaded some Lapua large primer brass for the same shoot. Had to lower my powder charge .3 grain to match the small rifle velocity. We will see. Hate to do load testing at a Regional but when the heck else can you!?!
FWIW by brother is shooting BPCR as well and has had good success with Winchester Large Rifle primers. He tried the paper between the primer and powder charge and found no difference but did have the odd short hang-fire...

 

[amlevin]

I've found the Wolf and Tula primers to perform as well, if not better than the Fed GMM and BR-2.

I use the same charge weights for the "russian's" as I do for the Fed's. Great accuracy and the ES/SD numbers clearly lower than those of Fed and CCI.

Once the Fed's and CCI's are gone I'm going exclusively to the Tula's.

 

[DHD]

Like you, I shoot bpcr. I have a pair, one 45/70 and a 40/65. Neither have ever been fouled with "smokeless" or a jacketed bullet.

A big fat FWIW, I bought 5000 BR2's years ago because it was the next best thing to the old white box Winchester LR primers. When the PMC LR primers came on scene, I bought 5000 of those. As I started running low on the PMC primers, I bought 5000 Wolf LRM's as it was what was available. Anyway, I never saw much if any difference in accuracy or numbers. I still have 3500 or so of the BR2's as I could not see a need to shoot them up when they cost twice as much and did not shoot any better for me. They can just remain in my hoard...

I too, have tried using a primer wad, but I place mine under the powder charge. I really did not see a statically worthwhile improvement, but it did not hurt either.

I use Swiss 1.5F mostly, with some Goex Express, that I bought quite a bit of, thrown in to change the odor from time to time. I have not shot either of mine past 600 yards. I use Paul Jones, Old West, and BACO moulds only.

I was guessing you were asking about shooting these primers out of your bpcr's. I go through stages where I get on a bpcr kick and won't shoot anything but them for 6 months or so, then switch back to smokeless guns. Too many toys.....

 

[cmillard]

well, if this helps, I switched over to Tula and wolf exclusively. was shooting cci B/R and Winchester. my shot to shot consistency is MUCH tighter now since I switched

 

[stool]

the pmc, wolf and tula all come from the same russian factory...

Like you, I shoot bpcr. I have a pair, one 45/70 and a 40/65. Neither have ever been fouled with "smokeless" or a jacketed bullet.

A big fat FWIW, I bought 5000 BR2's years ago because it was the next best thing to the old white box Winchester LR primers. When the PMC LR primers came on scene, I bought 5000 of those. As I started running low on the PMC primers, I bought 5000 Wolf LRM's as it was what was available. Anyway, I never saw much if any difference in accuracy or numbers. I still have 3500 or so of the BR2's as I could not see a need to shoot them up when they cost twice as much and did not shoot any better for me. They can just remain in my hoard...

I too, have tried using a primer wad, but I place mine under the powder charge. I really did not see a statically worthwhile improvement, but it did not hurt either.

I use Swiss 1.5F mostly, with some Goex Express, that I bought quite a bit of, thrown in to change the odor from time to time. I have not shot either of mine past 600 yards. I use Paul Jones, Old West, and BACO moulds only.

I was guessing you were asking about shooting these primers out of your bpcr's. I go through stages where I get on a bpcr kick and won't shoot anything but them for 6 months or so, then switch back to smokeless guns. Too many toys.....

 

[JRS]

They come from the same factory stool, just as Nike, Addidas, Puma, etc, etc. come from the same factory. They are however different.

 

[jsthntn247]

I'm picking up a few today from a fellow forum member to try out. I feel that some test with primers really arn't fair to the primer. If you work a load up with 210's then substitute Wolf primers to try them out, it's almost undoubetedly not going to do as well because it was worked up with another primer. If you worked up with Wolf then threw a BR2 in there, I would expect the same result. I've been told they are a larger diameter and work well when prmer pockets loosen after a few firings.

 

[stool]

i am not saying you are wrong, but can you furnish data to support that statement ?
i sell lots of them, and shoot a bunch too..i have not seen a difference.
they made changes to cup coating...nickle no nickle...
packaging, trays...

They come from the same factory stool, just as Nike, Addidas, Puma, etc, etc. come from the same factory. They are however different.

 

[smoooth]

So where does one buy these primers? I see Tula ammo at W-Mart, etc. but no primers. Anyone in MN?

Are they really a little fatter? Have heard the same about various major brands and when tried were looser than what I was using.

 

[JRS]

For the best price, Powder Valley.

 

[stool]

tula AMMO and tula PRIMERS are only related in that they are SOLD under THE SAME name, THEY ARE NOT MADE BY THE SAME COMPANY. just marketed by tula.
i sell them at gun shows ....seldom seen elsewhere.
several online sources, so you need to get together with others to make a bulk buy to keep costs down.

So where does one buy these primers? I see Tula ammo at W-Mart, etc. but no primers. Anyone in MN?

Are they really a little fatter? Have heard the same about various major brands and when tried were looser than what I was using.

 

[flatlander]

I've been using Wolf SRM & LRM primers for years. When PV stopped carrying the Wolf brand and started selling Tulas, I bought a couple of cases of them. The outer box has the same markings, same factory name, etc. IOW, I believe they're the same product as what Wolf was selling under their brand name.'

I've never had a F-T-F with the SRMs, but occasionally do have them with the LRMs. I'm pretty sure the problem comes from seating them with too much pressure, and cracking the priming compound pellet as a result. I was always told that the Russian primers needed to be seated firmly against the bottom of the primer pocket, and think my problem with the LRMs stems from using too much pressure when seating them. Since they are slightly larger in dia than U.S.-made brands, it takes a priming tool with good 'feel' to tell when they're seated to the bottom of the primer pocket, and that's all that's needed.

 

[amlevin]

several online sources, so you need to get together with others to make a bulk buy to keep costs down.

Some of us buy in bulk just for our own needs and keep the costs down.

I never order powder or primers in smaller quantities than "a full hazmat box FULL". That makes the hazmat fee less than $0.50 per "unit". I used to be a "pound here and box there" guy. Then one day I got tired of getting "bent over the counter" by my local Dealer that liked to charge over $60/box for CCI BR-2 primers and $10/lb more for powder, not stocking 8# jugs at all.

Once per year I place an order and that's it.

 

[Grimstod]

With what's going on in Russia and the Ukrain right now these primers might become rare.

 

[DHD]

I knew that they are all " Russian" primers. I also have read that they were all made in the same factory. They are from slightly different time periods I believe. Not that has made any real difference to the product inside.

Having used PMC, Wolf, and now Tula with Black Powder and smokeless, I cannot tell any difference. They are/were all good in my experience, and if they were all I could get, I would not feel too bad......

the pmc, wolf and tula all come from the same russian factory...

Like you, I shoot bpcr. I have a pair, one 45/70 and a 40/65. Neither have ever been fouled with "smokeless" or a jacketed bullet.

A big fat FWIW, I bought 5000 BR2's years ago because it was the next best thing to the old white box Winchester LR primers. When the PMC LR primers came on scene, I bought 5000 of those. As I started running low on the PMC primers, I bought 5000 Wolf LRM's as it was what was available. Anyway, I never saw much if any difference in accuracy or numbers. I still have 3500 or so of the BR2's as I could not see a need to shoot them up when they cost twice as much and did not shoot any better for me. They can just remain in my hoard...

I too, have tried using a primer wad, but I place mine under the powder charge. I really did not see a statically worthwhile improvement, but it did not hurt either.

I use Swiss 1.5F mostly, with some Goex Express, that I bought quite a bit of, thrown in to change the odor from time to time. I have not shot either of mine past 600 yards. I use Paul Jones, Old West, and BACO moulds only.

I was guessing you were asking about shooting these primers out of your bpcr's. I go through stages where I get on a bpcr kick and won't shoot anything but them for 6 months or so, then switch back to smokeless guns. Too many toys.....