Russian primer strength ?

[swampshooter]

Is there very much difference in the brisance of the Russian primers verses a stand U.S. made primer such as the CCI 200? I'm wondering if I can switch from CCI200 to Wolf LR primers without a trip to the range, setting up the chronograph, etc. I know a thorough test would be best, but I've switched brands of primers in the past without any noticeable problems. I would like to use the Wolf primers this week-end but don't have time to go to the range.

 

[Keith Glasscock]

They can also create higher pressures in my experience.

It is best to go to the range and check.

 

[swampshooter]

Sunday is the match, Tomorrow is a travel day. I dropped my powder charge .10 grains. My load wasn't hot to begin with. I'm going to go for it. It'll be a good test.

 

[watercam]

They are the mildest primers of all, you should not have to change a thing...

 

[1shot]

I have been shooting Russian primers in SR-m, (6AR and 308 Palma brass) LR in my 6.5x284 and 6.5 GWI. I have had one cartridge that they just wouldn't work in and that was the 6.5x47L
Switched to CCI 450's and everything was good. I'll bet you make a primer order after your match...just saying
Lloyd

 

[swampshooter]

I sure hope that you're right Lloyd. I bought 2,000 of them already.
I knew they were a mild primer or else I wouldn't dare risk doing what I'm doing.

 

[amlevin]

They are the mildest primers of all, you should not have to change a thing...

I've been using Wolf and Tula primers interchangeably with Federal GMM. No speed changes when measured on the Chrono but the "russians" yield better SD/ES numbers.

I now buy the Tula's by the case (5,000).

 

[1shot]

Swampshooter,
There are three aspects that I find desireable in a Russian primer.
1. They have a very hard cup, so they tolerate some of the loads that I run.
2. As Watercam said they are very mild and that is always a good thing for consistency.
3. The Ruskies aren't limited by law to not use certain compounds in their priming mixture, giving us a better primer. Don't ask me what the chemical is because I don't know, but I do know some people with a much higher pay grade than me that do.
I hope this helps,
Lloyd

 

[jlow]

They are also slightly larger in diameter and so gives your stretched out brass a little more life.

 

[swampshooter]

I found out that they are slightly larger. I broke that cheap Lee hand primer trying to seat them. Oh well, I've been wanting a new Sinclair hand primer anyway, this will give me the incentive to order it.
Anyway everything went well at the match with the new primers. I do believe they cut down on some of the vertical that I've been getting at 1,000. Can't say for sure though, as all I have is empirical evidence from one match. .

 

[amlevin]

They are also slightly larger in diameter and so gives your stretched out brass a little more life.

I've found that they are a lot like CCI's in this respect.

 

[Down South]

They are the mildest primers of all, you should not have to change a thing...

I've been using Wolf and Tula primers interchangeably with Federal GMM. No speed changes when measured on the Chrono but the "russians" yield better SD/ES numbers.

I now buy the Tula's by the case (5,000).

Interesting, I did a lot of testing on different days with 3 different primers over my Oehler 35 P chrono in large primer Lapua brass with 185 juggernauts and Varget......Fed 210Ms were the hottest primer giving me 20 ft per sec average faster than Tula LR Mags, the CCI BR2s were 10 ft. per sec average faster than the Tula Mags.......Tula mags were the mildest primer and gave the best numbers and groups......Maybe i had a very mild lot of Tula primers but it kinda surprised me that the mag primers were milder (my lot anyway) than the other brands with standard primers......I've been told that the Tula mags are a standard primer with a harder cup, maybe its true.

 

[Changeling]

This is a very interesting post.

How are the Russian primers relative to Piercing in high pressure loads?

 

[jlow]

They are also slightly larger in diameter and so gives your stretched out brass a little more life.

I've found that they are a lot like CCI's in this respect.

I cannot speak of this for all CCIs but that has been my experience.

A few years ago, I did a small study comparing the diameter of small rifle primers including Wolf SRM, Rem 7 1/2 and CCI400 primers. Measuring a modest 20 primer sample of each, I found that the Wolf was on the average 0.13 thousands bigger but the CCI400 was on the average 0.37 thousands bigger.

As to piercing - the Russian primers are actually more like military primers and not at all prime to piecing. The complain is more like they are harder to set off because of the thickness of their cup.

In the above study, I also measure their weight - Wolf came in an average of 3.64 grains, followed by Rem 7 1/2 at 3.56 grains, and last by CCI400 at 3.45 grains. FWIW, CCI400 is well known for their thin cup and this illustrates it perfectly.

 

[1shot]

If you do some searching, Bob Jensen and German Salazar did a very extensive test on primers to determine the effect that a "hot"primer had vs a mild one The hooked up a strain gage to the rifle and employed high speed photography to capture the amount of flash that exited the muzzle. The also chronograph ed the loads to see what if any real time difference there was. The bottom line is the milder the primer the lower the ES an SD there was. The conclusion was that a "hot" primer was pushing the powder column and the bullet forward before the powder could ignite and burn up the powder column as it is designed to. However the mild primer lit up the power and allowed it to build gasses at a consistent rate. You really need to find this article as it has pictures of all the flame flashes from the different primers.
I hope this helps,
Lloyd

 

[Changeling]

With the small flame exposure of the Russian primers (vs the others) has anyone had any problems in really cold weather, such as a failure/slow ignition ?

I would think sense they are used in Russia (not exactly Palm Beach Florida) the answer would be no, however you know what they say about assuming anything!

 

[jlow]

My understanding is it does have problem consistently igniting certain (but not all) ball powders.

 

[Down South]

With the small flame exposure of the Russian primers (vs the others) has anyone had any problems in really cold weather, such as a failure/slow ignition ?

I would think sense they are used in Russia (not exactly Palm Beach Florida) the answer would be no, however you know what they say about assuming anything!

I used Tula mag primers (large primer) in a match last year when the temps never got out of the 30s and it shot great, was using Varget with juggernauts......I haven't shot Palma brass (small primer) in temps that low so can't say what it would do but i would feel better using a hotter primer in colder weather than the Tula/Wolfs small rifle primers......If the temps get lower than 30s i won't be shooting matches anyway so can't say if the large primer Wolf/Tulas would have problems or not but they were fine in the match i shot them in......I've never had a hang/misfire with a large rifle Tula primer.

 

[swampshooter]

I would not expect the Russian primers to give good performance in cold weather, especially with ball powders. I've been told that Russian powders are easier to ignite in cold weather than the powders normally used in the U.S. but I haven't been privey to any actual tests.

 

[amlevin]

I would not expect the Russian primers to give good performance in cold weather, especially with ball powders. I've been told that Russian powders are easier to ignite in cold weather than the powders normally used in the U.S. but I haven't been privey to any actual tests.

Last winter I used the Wolf primers I had on hand to light off CFE223 when the temps were down in single digits and didn't have any issues Also used them with AA2230. Left the ammo sitting out on the bench the entire time at the range.

Had to wear insulated coveralls, Glove/Mitts with warmers, as well as Sorel's in order to keep warm but the ammo with Wolf Primers didn't seem to care 8)