Round robin

[potatoe]

What exactly is a round robin?

 

[Steve Blair]

Shoot one round from each load at a different aiming point until you have shot all loads. Repeat until all rounds are fired. The idea is to distribute any anomalies evenly among all loads. (i.e.: barrel heat, carbon fouling, etc.)

 

[ar10ar15man]

in the spring the pregnant momma robins get round prior to laying eggs...

round robin is all teams play each other atleast once...

again reasonable answers show up when a complete in context question is asked.

in my opinion the use of round robin shooting for load developemnt is a good way to waste ammo

shoot one group in one condiition and move on...if your gun fouls easily, clean it before going on...if it fouls easy.it probably is not a target rifle to begin with.

 

[Immike]

I don't think the round Robin is a good way to test because of moving the gun too much. When I test loads I get a big target and draw rows of circles using a washer for a template. I shoot 2 groups with each load and mark the target with the load. This is good map of comparison with all the testing on one target.

 

[oht]

This is a good read.
http://www.accurateshooter.com/technical-articles/long-range-load-development/

 

[Alex Wheeler]

I don't think the round Robin is a good way to test because of moving the gun too much. When I test loads I get a big target and draw rows of circles using a washer for a template. I shoot 2 groups with each load and mark the target with the load. This is good map of comparison with all the testing on one target.

I use the round robin method at long range, I color my bullets and use the same aim point. I will usually have 3-4 different loads to test, 3 shots each. Thats 9-12 rounds, and I run em just like shooting a match. Very good way to test. Very repeatable.

 

[Immike]

I can see that this would simulate a long string of fire. As long as testing is done methodically then you have a good test.

Now that you explained a way to shoot one aiming point I see the light of this. I will give this a try!! I already have my markers laid out for the test. I have a new Dasher ready for a jump test so this is a good opportunity to try this.

 

[mr45man]

1+ what zfastmalibu said.
I use the colored bullet method and stretch it out to 500 M.
You can really see the vertical tighten up with your best load.
There is something to be said about not moving the rifle or the rest
during the test
John H.

 

[ar10ar15man]

can u round robin proponents explain to me how shooting three rounds over time, in different conditions produces valid data ??

2/3 shots in a warm hot bbl vs three in one condition
2/3 shots in different wind, vs all three in one condition

you have me confused...

of let me ask another way..is this load development for competition ??

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Reread my post. How do you shoot a 1'' group at 600? You wait till you get a good condition and then you run the shots as fast as you can and don't get caught by a condition change.
Do the same with the round robin testing method. You will have all 9-12 shot off before that barrel has time to get hot. I have targets with two separate duplicate test groups. They measure with in 1/4'' of each other at 600 yards. If you watch conditions, this method works. I am amazed at what .2 gr will do to a group from my dasher at 600.

 

[ar10ar15man]

so if nothing external changes...why round robin..why not 3 or 4 three shot groups ??
what does shooting out of order gain you...
too quick for bbl heat...too fast for condition change...
so why ???

Reread my post. How do you shoot a 1'' group at 600? You wait till you get a good condition and then you run the shots as fast as you can and don't get caught by a condition change.
Do the same with the round robin testing method. You will have all 9-12 shot off before that barrel has time to get hot. I have targets with two separate duplicate test groups. They measure with in 1/4'' of each other at 600 yards. If you watch conditions, this method works. I am amazed at what .2 gr will do to a group from my dasher at 600.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

You could, shooting round robin also takes you out of the picture. We usually already think we know what load we expect to shoot best. I bet subliminally we try a little harder on that group. Also, there are things we can't see condition wise. So this method does make things as even as possible. You don't have to try it. I am sure you have a method that works too.

 

[ar10ar15man]

sorry but in my case..that is bs...
no because you still have to know which ammo you are shooting when......
its not a blind shoot....

You could, shooting round robin also takes you out of the picture. We usually already think we know what load we expect to shoot best. I bet subliminally we try a little harder on that group. Also, there are things we can't see condition wise. So this method does make things as even as possible. You don't have to try it. I am sure you have a method that works too.

 

[bozo699]

sorry but in my case..that is bs...
no because you still have to know which ammo you are shooting when......
its not a blind shoot....

You could, shooting round robin also takes you out of the picture. We usually already think we know what load we expect to shoot best. I bet subliminally we try a little harder on that group. Also, there are things we can't see condition wise. So this method does make things as even as possible. You don't have to try it. I am sure you have a method that works too.

Mike,
What are you talking about?.....read his posts again! They make perfect sense, he isn't favoring a load hoping it will shoot better, the bullets are colored, he hammers 12 down range and measures the results, as long as you don't pull a shot you have a pretty honest test, if you feel you pulled a shot call it and move on. I think it is a pretty honest way to do enitial load tests to find ocw and for seating depth as well.
Wayne.

 

[ar10ar15man]

and who assembled the loads and color coding ?...
the shooter...so yes he does know which load he might think is the best..so there is no blind shooting...
again why not just shoot 4 three shot groups.....

you guys must have some great ranges...i have a hard enough time getting A condition for 3 and 5 shot groups..never mind trying fro a 12 shot group...

let it die....
i'll leave the rr shooters to themselves..

sorry but in my case..that is bs...
no because you still have to know which ammo you are shooting when......
its not a blind shoot....

You could, shooting round robin also takes you out of the picture. We usually already think we know what load we expect to shoot best. I bet subliminally we try a little harder on that group. Also, there are things we can't see condition wise. So this method does make things as even as possible. You don't have to try it. I am sure you have a method that works too.

Mike,
What are you talking about?.....read his posts again! They make perfect sense, he isn't favoring a load hoping it will shoot better, the bullets are colored, he hammers 12 down range and measures the results, as long as you don't pull a shot you have a pretty honest test, if you feel you pulled a shot call it and move on. I think it is a pretty honest way to do enitial load tests to find ocw and for seating depth as well.
Wayne.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Can you explain why you need to know what shot you are shooting and when? When we are shooting long range and can't see our shots anyways? Like I said, you dont have to try it. But you should not knock another way of tuning that you ""think" doesn't work, as it may help another shooter out. We shoot a 500M match, Same rules as 600 IBS, just at 565 yds. My girlfriend shot a 1.641'' agg. last month with my rifle tuned with this method. It works.