Roll Sizing: Before or After Shoulder Bump?

[JezL]

Does it tighten up primer pockets?

Hmmm thats a bit hard to say ... I dont think it will FIX brass with loose pockets, however I feel it helps prevent them opening up sooner. My current Lots have been rollsized since first firing ... now most are 6+ and pockets are still tight! ... However I tried rollsizing some older clicking SAUM Norma brass which was loose in the pocket ... it fixed the clicking .. however the pockets still seated primers too easily. ( This older Brass had 6 firings when the clicking started and loose pockets )
So I wouldnt say it will "tighten" loose pockets ... but seems to prevent them from heading that way.

 

[makurtz]

No help with the pockets from my experience.

 

[K22]

If nothing else, an amazing piece of engineering. Interesting video - well done.

I consider it critically important to have reloads without functionality issues. I check every reload I take to the field with a case gauge. It only takes a few minutes to assure that I won't end up in the field with cartridges that do not function.

At this late stage of my shooting sports avocation, I will not be considering changing my current reloading system which works well for me. However, I can see where this might have some value for high volume competitors early in their shooting avocation. I think this is an improvement over using a small base die for bolt rifles to deal with bulges at the base.

 

[Papa Charlie]

Haven't used my roll sizer yet, but watching F-Class John's reports on it, and reviewing the commercial RollSizer website, it appears it will not tighten up the pockets, although there is speculation that it could help prolong the pocket life.

My cases are Lapua .308, large rifle primer pockets, non turned necks, while I do run a hot load, I have been able to get from 8-15 firings before experiencing any pocket loosening. Clickers have been much more of an issue far sooner. So will be able to see what I get moving forward.

I would assume that caliber, loads, large vs small primer, and case preparation will all see different results.

It will be interesting to see what everyone learns.

 

[LVLAaron]

Friend of mine was having a hard time with clickers. He's an FTR guy and shoots a LOT. He chased all kinds of problems and was about to buy a roll sizer. Turns out he had worn out his sizing die... So... before you spend 1000 bucks on a fancy machine make sure everything else is right.

 

[Papa Charlie]

Friend of mine was having a hard time with clickers. He's an FTR guy and shoots a LOT. He chased all kinds of problems and was about to buy a roll sizer. Turns out he had worn out his sizing die... So... before you spend 1000 bucks on a fancy machine make sure everything else is right.

Not an issue, I have confirmed the case base expansion as the issue and I have designed and built my own case roll sizer. As I stated above, it is accurate enough to adjusts in the tenths and extremely consistent. The cost came in at about 1/4 of the commercial roll sizer.

But thanks for the info.

 

[Hoser]

Roll sizing is the first step that I do.

I have not tried it after resizing.

I started roll sizing my brass in 1998-1999 or so. Back then the machine was called a Case-Pro. Now days the RollSizer from Australia is awesome. I have the commercial version.

If I was starting over, I would take a close look at the one from Poland. Looks to be a better mousetrap.

Rollsizer

CasePro

 

[ridgeway]

Friend of mine was having a hard time with clickers. He's an FTR guy and shoots a LOT. He chased all kinds of problems and was about to buy a roll sizer. Turns out he had worn out his sizing die... So... before you spend 1000 bucks on a fancy machine make sure everything else is right.

Or make a ring die.

 

[Fire Dog]

Roll sizing is the first step that I do.

I have not tried it after resizing.

I started roll sizing my brass in 1998-1999 or so. Back then the machine was called a Case-Pro. Now days the RollSizer from Australia is awesome. I have the commercial version.

If I was starting over, I would take a close look at the one from Poland. Looks to be a better mousetrap.

Rollsizer

CasePro

The manufacturer instructions say to Roll Size first, before bumping necks as the roll sizing will slightly lengthen the case.
If you have bumped/sized the case first you will find that the case is now back to fired length or even a few thousand longer giving a “crush” fit to your loaded round and of course changing your BTO…

 

[Quant]

I just picked up the Universal Roll Sizer. It does work, even on brass that clicked hard with the last firing and were bound for the trash. It’s the only thing I am aware of that fixes clickers after the fact. More testing to do, but pleased so far.

 

[johnnyi]

Even if it doesnt lengthen it reduces the force the FL die will see. So bump numbers will get more consistent.

Roll first as Alex says…. Also I would lend in to be sure to reset your shoulder bump again with this added rolling. The shoulder bump will change so always double check if you are changing your process.

 

[F Class John]

Does it tighten up primer pockets?

No it doesn't and Rollsizer doesn't claim it will either.

 

[WSnyder]

If I was starting over, I would take a close look at the one from Poland. Looks to be a better mousetrap.

Name of the unit? Name of the manufacturer? Any links/websites to see one of these?

 

[Earnhardt]

Exactly as Alex points out. You need to Rollsize first, and do it every time. Your sizing die requires less work / force as it doesnt need to squeeze the base as much - this results in headspace difference. I had to adjust my sizing die's to achieve the required shoulder bump numbers. ( Using with SAUM IMP and PRCW )
Once adjusted, and rollsize each time, my bump numbers are very consistent.

I use the Rollsizer - its great! - no more clickers on aging brass - keeps my brass in check throughout its life cycle.

Jezl, what is the amount of 'Sizing" you have your Roll Sizer set up for?

.002"? ....005"?

Is there a max amount you can size in one full rotation of the Roll Sizer?

Or on brass that needs a larger amount of sizing, are (2) "sizings" required?

Thanks

 

[JezL]

Jezl, what is the amount of 'Sizing" you have your Roll Sizer set up for?

.002"? ....005"?

Is there a max amount you can size in one full rotation of the Roll Sizer?

Or on brass that needs a larger amount of sizing, are (2) "sizings" required?

Thanks

I would reach out to Kev at Rollsizer and get his opinion, as im sure he get's asked this alot.

I simply aim for a logical number that's no smaller then Virgin Brass spec, typically I will aim for the same value or touch smaller then my sizing dies.
If you go too small, the rollsizer wont operate correctly, too tight, will bind on the case and not rotate correctly. In this instance 2 or 3 gradual incrememtal sizings will help.
from what I have found ... you are looking for a dimension between virgin brass and resized brass ??

 

[Fire Dog]

I am Roll Sizing my high power competition brass for the first time. My brass has been fired several times and the bolt felt a bit stiffer than normal when ejecting in the last match. In previous lots, it got to the dreaded Clicker stage requiring me to replace it. I have a few questions for those who use a roll sizer.

1) Do you roll size your brass every time when prepping your brass? I do all other sizing functions every time to ensure I get consistency and wonder if there is any ill effect by adding this step to my regime?

2) Do you roll size before shoulder bump and neck sizing? Metal when moved has to go somewhere, I am concerned that the roll sizing will move the metal up the case and change the shoulder bump if done afterwards.

3) Have you experienced any other thing in the roll sizing process that you would care to share?

Thanks for you help.

Before, the brass will grow a few thousand and if you are running a minimal shoulder bump you will find that the rounds are a tad too long for chambering.
A direct quote from page 16 of the manual that came with your Rollsizer says:

“When the cases are rollsized, both rifle and pistol case will lengthen slightly. For pistol cases this is of no significance (as pistol case usually shrink with repeated reloading) but it is common for the seating and crimping dies to require adjustment.

Rifle cases will often need trimming, and this should be checked out before reloading.”

I always check the base to shoulder of a fired case and write that down before roll sizing so that I know exactly how much I need to bump the shoulder to my desired amount.
In my case 1 & 1/2 thousand..

 

[Fire Dog]

I would reach out to Kev at Rollsizer and get his opinion, as im sure he get's asked this alot.

I simply aim for a logical number that's no smaller then Virgin Brass spec, typically I will aim for the same value or touch smaller then my sizing dies.
If you go too small, the rollsizer wont operate correctly, too tight, will bind on the case and not rotate correctly. In this instance 2 or 3 gradual incrememtal sizings will help.
from what I have found ... you are looking for a dimension between virgin brass and resized brass ??

To quote pg 15 of the instructions;
“ For Bolt action/ELD shooting the dimensions will need to reflect the chamber and this will often be specific to the reloader’s requirements.”
I use a new case and a fired case as a gauge and roll back about 2 thousands off the fired case. Never rolled back to factory as that is just a “universal” works for most chambers SAAMI specification and does not reflect what your chamber will be after fire forming.
I find that two thousands is plenty of clearance and not overworking the brass.
If it fits smoothly into your chamber then you are there…
This is of course after resizing the full length of the case.
You will know you are on the right track when you size as the case will be much smoother into the die as you are not having to force an oversized base into the die.

 

[Earnhardt]

I would reach out to Kev at Rollsizer and get his opinion, as im sure he get's asked this alot.

I simply aim for a logical number that's no smaller then Virgin Brass spec, typically I will aim for the same value or touch smaller then my sizing dies.
If you go too small, the rollsizer wont operate correctly, too tight, will bind on the case and not rotate correctly. In this instance 2 or 3 gradual incrememtal sizings will help.
from what I have found ... you are looking for a dimension between virgin brass and resized brass ??

No, I'm really looking to see if this would work on AR fired brass (6.5 Creedmoor), that sometimes swells more than .005" at the .200" line.

I keep seeing a Roll Sizing of .002" thrown around in the various forums, so I'm guessing multiple Roll Sizings would work on the AR fired brass.

I have sent an email out to Roll Sizer...waiting for a response

Thanks

 

[charlie b]

This all reminds me of issues with .semi-auto pistol bullets bulging due to the barrel ramp. The solution for that was a "bulge buster" die. Basically just a ring of the proper ID that the case was shoved through.

Any reason why a similar die could not be used to do the same thing?