Resizing cases

[Dusty Stevens]

My 2 rcbs sb die sets are full length. I have a 308 and 223

 

[spudgun]

Using Full length die with full contact between die and shellholder . With the Redding Competition Shellholders , they Come with 5 different Shellholders with .02 deck heights lower then the standard being .125 the comp holders are from .135 to .127 You can size from zero on up for case headspace with full contact no crimp necessary .

Thanks for the info.

 

[cw308]

Spudgun
I found the RCBS PRECISION MIC the easiest and best for measuring headspace and Ogive measurements . There caliber specific. I also use a Go Gauge to find my chamber length from base to shoulder , you install the gauge in your chamber the bolt will close , by building up the back of the gauge with shims or tape untill you feel a slight resistance on bolt closure , that measurement is your chamber length from shoulder to base . From there you can size headspace from zero on up . Very good gauge to have when looking for chamber length .

 

[MislMan]

For a test, ignore the SAAMI specs and trim one of your fired cases shorter to match the Hornady store bought ammo. Might be your chamber is just a little shorter than SAAMI spec. You may just need to trim your brass shorter for YOUR chamber/barrel.

 

[Twicepop]

Use a Wilson case gauge and either a dial caliper or a depth mike to check if your sizing your cases properly. If the cases stand proud of the higher step of the gauge, they're not being sized enough. If they're below the lower step of the gauge, they're being sized to much. If this seat/crimp die is set to crimp while seating the bullet, you might be bulging the case at the mouth creating chambering problems. Back the seat/crimp die out and use as a seater only, if you crimp do that as a separate step with a dedicated crimp die. Redding makes a taper crimp die that works with either cannelured or un-cannelured bullets. LEE makes an inexpensive factory crimp die that works extremely well with cannelured bullets.

 

[Bill K]

So you saying I have the wrong dies?

No, just saying use the small base dies and make sure your cases are trimmed to the correct length or a couple thousands shorter. My Valkyrie in 224 and AR platform give no problems feeding or ejecting.

 

[Bill K]

WOW, one person says full length die and another says SB dies. I have SB dies now, I do NOT crimp. I just ordered a Full length die and also a case gauge for checking the brass. I have one for every round I reload for but could not find one in town.

RCBS shell holder #19, .125" on the dot.

I wont be able to do much untill the case gauge comes. I know from using them in the past they really do help figure out issues.

spudgun.. they make a fl sizing die in small base, just make sure that is what you have. If not then buy a set. All my ar's, no matter the caliber have sm/fl sizing dies in use. And again be sure your cartridge length is correct or just slightly shorter,.

 

[spudgun]

OK, today I got a FL die and a case gauge. Set up the new die along with my SB die. resized a case using the Full Length die, then resized a case using the Short Base die.
Then took a virgin brass (never touched a die or been reloaded) and finally a case that has not been resized (fire formed).

#1. fire formed case, OAL 1.590"
#2, virgin brass, OAL 1.594
#3, full length sized brass, OAL 1.595"
#4, Short Based die resized, OAL 1.591

All cases will drop into Lyman case checker (go/nogo) gauge).
Now comes the question I have been asking at the start of the thread.
Cases #1 and #2 (empty) will chamber and go into full battery and can be ejected with the charging handle.
Cases #3 and #4 will lock up but need to be mortared out of the chamber.

Now since 3 and 4 have been resized in both a F/L and S/B dies and cannot be easily removed from the chamber and cases 1 and 2 will eject easily without mortar.

I gotta believe that either both dies are not SAAMI spec or my chamber is not spec.

I'm leaning towards my chamber.

Now this does not effect they way the bullet performs as each one will go into battery and eject after it is fired. I can live with this.

Yes, I know I can just buy a neck sizer and use fire formed brass. I just don't really want to buy a 3rd die for this cartridge.

Just wanted to know why it is doing what it does.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

I think your measurements are way off- or you found your issue. You surely are not bumping your brass almost a half inch

 

[tmwinds]

My 2 rcbs sb die sets are full length. I have a 308 and 223

I guess I'm confused. If the op has a small base die would it not also be a FL die?
Actually I wouldn't know. Every die I have is a FL custom or semi-custom for my chambers. No need for a crutch.

 

[spudgun]

I think your measurements are way off- or you found your issue. You surely are not bumping your brass almost a half inch

Oh yeah, typo on my end. Sorry. I will correct OAL.... Getting late..

 

[spudgun]

I guess I'm confused. If the op has a small base die would it not also be a FL die?
Actually I wouldn't know. Every die I have is a FL custom or semi-custom for my chambers. No need for a crutch.

Ok, here is my die info:
RCBS, SB T/C die set #11207
Lee die, F/L #9Z006

Not sure what you mean buy "a crutch"

I can tell there is a differance by looking at the brass after it was run through the die.

The SB resized brass has a dull look at the neck, the F/L has a shinny look. Although they both measure the same OD after running them the look is different. Could just be the die causing the dull finish.

 

[243winxb]

1. fire formed case, OAL 1.590"
#2, virgin brass, OAL 1.594
#3, full length sized brass, OAL 1.195"
#4, Short Based die resized, OAL 1.191

 

[rammac]

Good Gosh, talk about a bunch of misinformed crap.

SB does not stand for short base, it means SMALL BASE, meaning that the case diameter is sized closer to the head of the case than a how a FULL LENGTH (FL) die will size the case.

You keep talking about OAL (Overall Length- the dimension measured from the base of the case to the tip of the bullet), OAL is not what you are measuring, you are measuring trim-to-length (the dimension measured from the base of the case to the mouth of the case).

Have you checked the headspace dimension of the case (the dimension measured from the base of the case to the SAAMI designated datum on the case shoulder)? If your cases are checked in a Wilson or a Lee case gauge and they fail then either your headspace or trim-to-length are wrong. You've already checked the trim-to-length and it seems to be OK so if the cases don't check out then your headspace would be too long. Too long of headspace will cause the bolt to lock up like you are describing, basically the case is too long at the shoulder and when you close the bolt it is compressing the case until the sides expand and jam against the chamber walls. If the cases pass the Wilson or Lee gauge check then your problem will most likely be that the diameter of the case, just above the extractor groove, is too large.

If you check the resized cases in a Wilson or Lee case gauge you are only checking lengths (headspace and trim-to-lengths), neither of those gauges will check diameters. A Sheridan gauge will check lengths and diameters. Not using a Sheridan gauge can cause you to assume that a case is sized properly when in fact it isn't. A Wilson or a Lee gauge will pass cases that are too large in diameter, the Sheridan wont. The slotted case gauge from Sheridan allows you to see where the case doesn't fit properly.

An alternative to using a case gauge is to paint the case with a colored marker and then chamber it. When you remove the case you will see marks where the marker ink was scraped off. Those marks will tell you where the case if contacting the chamber.

 

[Nick Caprinolo]

I've been reading this for a while and here is what I did after having that same problem.

Run your sb die into your press. Raise the base up to it's full stroke and then lower the die until it rest on the shell holder. Lower the shell holder and turn the die another half turn. When you raise the shell holder, you will now have to apply a small amount of force to lock it all the way up. This will form the brass all the way to the base.

Try five cases and see if the chamber properly. When I was trying this, I put bullets in the cases and loaded them into a mag to make sure they worked. If you go to Youtube, you can find videos about it.

 

[blisle78]

I've been reading this for a while and here is what I did after having that same problem.

Run your sb die into your press. Raise the base up to it's full stroke and then lower the die until it rest on the shell holder. Lower the shell holder and turn the die another half turn. When you raise the shell holder, you will now have to apply a small amount of force to lock it all the way up. This will form the brass all the way to the base.

Try five cases and see if the chamber properly. When I was trying this, I put bullets in the cases and loaded them into a mag to make sure they worked. If you go to Youtube, you can find videos about it.

That was my thought too. I had this exact issue when I first started reloading. Your die should bottom out to the shell holder with a little stroke left in the ram, by forcing the handle down further to cam over (a noticeable popping motion) then pull the handle back up to release the case. This is what moves the shoulder datum to base dimensions seen in the image above. You probably only need to lower your die another 1/4 to 1/2 rotation if it is not camming over already. You SB die is all you need for an AR if you are mag feeding and want more reliable feeding. If you plan on slow fire or hand feeding into the chamber you would want to use the FL die as it will leave the diameters tighter to the chamber and be more accurate. A FL die might work just fine in an AR that has a large chamber. But if not it could cause feeding issues.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

I guess I'm confused. If the op has a small base die would it not also be a FL die?
Actually I wouldn't know. Every die I have is a FL custom or semi-custom for my chambers. No need for a crutch.

Yes- the rcbs sb/tc die that comes in the black box is a full length sizing die that is also a small base die. All it does is size the base smaller than the green box fl dies. Its made specifically for AR rifles. This die will do everything the op wants to do and he should stop using the lee die at the same time or period really. There is no way to know if hes sizing enough with the oal case measurement but if that rcbs die is touching the shellholder it is sizing plenty.

 

[blisle78]

If you don’t have a way to measure base to shoulder datum get something like this

Hornady HK66 Lock-N-Load Headspace Gauge Kit with Body https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000PD5VN8/?tag=accuratescom-20

 

[spudgun]

I've been reading this for a while and here is what I did after having that same problem.

Run your sb die into your press. Raise the base up to it's full stroke and then lower the die until it rest on the shell holder. Lower the shell holder and turn the die another half turn. When you raise the shell holder, you will now have to apply a small amount of force to lock it all the way up. This will form the brass all the way to the base.

Try five cases and see if the chamber properly. When I was trying this, I put bullets in the cases and loaded them into a mag to make sure they worked. If you go to Youtube, you can find videos about it.

Thank you Nick. I needed to turn the die 1/4 more turn down. I was about 1/2 turn but 1/4 more did the trick.

Thanks for all that answered my issues. Some worked some did not, but what the heck that's what reloading is all about.

 

[Nick Caprinolo]

Thank you Nick. I needed to turn the die 1/4 more turn down. I was about 1/2 turn but 1/4 more did the trick.

Thanks for all that answered my issues. Some worked some did not, but what the heck that's what reloading is all about.

That's what this forum is all about. Glad it worked for you. Now get out there a toss some ammo down range.