Rem 700 vs. Rem 700

[4xforfun]

So, what has changed over the years? I have a couple if mid 90's era 700's, a 700 Sendero and a 700 Varment Synthetic....both have been "upgraded". I also have a cheep early 1960's era 700 LA ADL in 7mm Rem Mag. that is in stock condition. All are wonderfull actions that "feel " solid and are very smoooooth. They feel like steel on steel when you work the actions. They always have.

I just had my smith put together a semi custom Rem 700 with BDL bottom metal, McMillan stock, Jewell trigger, etc..... in 6.5 x 47L for my nephew, and, quite frankly, it feels like ass compared to the older Rems! A friend of mine had the same thing put together last fall and....same thing....feels tinny,plastic,cheezey"...whatever....CHEAP. It has more hitches in it than a trailer store when you cycle the bolt.

Are all 700 this way now, or do today's top end 700's "feel different" than the $279.00 el-cheapo actions?

I guess , as much as I love and shoot guns, I am not the guy who goes to the gun store twice a week and cycles every action in the joint every time I visit....so, I am out of the "loop". I may look at a nice piece of wood, but that is about it.

Just thinking out loud,
Tod

 

[STOMP442]

Unfortunately, some are smoother than others these days. I have used some that were really well made and others that were complete nightmares. A little balistol in the bolt raceways applied with a Q-tip does wonders though.

 

[K22]

The one aspect I hate about the 'new and improved' 700's is the X Pro Trigger. The old vintage Rem 700 triggers were excellent and could be easily adjusted.

I don't think the 700's were ever known for their smooth actions; adequate but not perfect. My 700's with detachable mags will not feed the last round in the mag. No big deal for me, I single load my varmint rifles anyway and never needed more than three rounds for deer and that was a rare exception.

If I was hunting dangerous game I would choose a Mauser action (i.e. control feed).

If you want a smooth action check out the Tikka's.

All in all I was always pleased with my 700's (80 and 90's vintage). I like the Model 7's also. But I haven't purchased a 'new' Rem since the 90's. The only criticism I have is the extractor system. I prefer a Sako style extractor system.

 

[Ledd Slinger]

First off, you can't put a Jewell trigger in an action without timing it. The sear on a Jewell trigger will always be longer than the factory trigger and they give a horrible bolt throw until timed properly. Even a high end custom action cycles hard with a Jewell trigger until timed. If your smith did not time the trigger, it will feel like complete "ass" as you would call it

Good to "soften" the cocking ramp and detent on the bolt too. Makes for smoother cycling as well.

Also need to check extraction timing on the bolt handle. Ensure it is camming over with good contact on the back of the receiver at the proper time.

If you aren't familiar with these procedures, ask your smith of he can do it for you. When these things are done properly, any 700 can be made to cycle very smoothly.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

First off, you can't put a Jewell trigger in an action without timing it. The sear on a Jewell trigger will always be longer than the factory trigger and they give a horrible bolt throw until timed properly. Even a high end custom action cycles hard with a Jewell trigger until timed. If your smith did not time the trigger, it will feel like complete "ass" as you would call it

Good to "soften" the cocking ramp and detent on the bolt too. Makes for smoother cycling as well.

Also need to check extraction timing on the bolt handle. Ensure it is camming over with good contact on the back of the receiver at the proper time.

If you aren't familiar with these procedures, ask your smith of he can do it for you. When these things are done properly, any 700 can be made to cycle very smoothly.

Easy there. Timing a trigger by working the cocking piece reduces pin fall and you will be past the point of accuracy loss by the time you get it closing smooth. And laying the top of the cocking ramp back, INCREASES cock on close. Do what you want to smooth them up but keep pin fall over .240 if you want optimal accuracy potential. The problem with cock on close is, .005 worth feels just as bad as .050" to me, and I hate cock on close. So unless your going to eliminate it 100% its always going to feel clunky.

OP, the sand blasted actions feel pretty bad. If I was going to build on one Id order a bare action. I have had a lot of them here and they feel better, I cant stand that sand blasted finish.

 

[Ledd Slinger]

Easy there. Timing a trigger by working the cocking piece reduces pin fall and you will be past the point of accuracy loss by the time you get it closing smooth. And laying the top of the cocking ramp back, INCREASES cock on close. Do what you want to smooth them up but keep pin fall over .240 if you want optimal accuracy potential. The problem with cock on close is, .005 worth feels just as bad as .050" to me, and I hate cock on close.

Yep, I agree cock on close is the worst.

 

[4xforfun]

So....my older 700's both have Jewell triggers...both installed by me, and I don't know the first thing about "timing" a trigger. Comparing these two older 700's to the two new 700's ....with Jewell triggers also.....is night and day....period. All of this fancy gunsmithing talk isn't going to change that fact.

It could very well be that some trigger work MIGHT help the new actions, but it would take a miricle to make them like my old ones. The finish on the new actions is black as night...my older actions are blued and the bolts are "jewelled"

Thanks,
Tod

 

[carlsbad]

Some of the current crop of 700s are very smooth. Just recieved 2 of them last week. I've been called an idiot or worse for saying there is a difference. But it is true. Now I'm unwatching this thread. Bye.

 

[Ledd Slinger]

So....my older 700's both have Jewell triggers...both installed by me, and I don't know the first thing about "timing" a trigger. Comparing these two older 700's to the two new 700's ....with Jewell triggers also.....is night and day....period. All of this fancy gunsmithing talk isn't going to change that fact.

It could very well be that some trigger work MIGHT help the new actions, but it would take a miricle to make them like my old ones. The finish on the new actions is black as night...my older actions are blued and the bolts are "jewelled"

Thanks,
Tod

Im sure Remington saves money by baking a black coating on them in a giant oven instead of hot blueing. Plus the matte black color makes the G.I. Joe wannabes feel like they are tactical military snipers ya know

But seriously, your "old" 700 actions are no different in design whatsoever. They just have a different finish that allows for smoother operation. Underneath that black coating is the same action. Can all be removed and polished out and blued if a person wants to take the time or pay to have it done.

 

[butchlambert]

The new receivers are made on CNC machines and are much better than the old ones. Extraction and timing is not as good. I had much rather build on a new receiver.

 

[22DASHER]

I have purchased several of the actions with the non-jeweled bolt and was never as pleased as I have been with the ones with the jeweled bolts. Guessing it is just the difference in finish but the ones with the jeweled bolts do feel much smoother and those are the only ones I build off of now. Most of mine are now the older version that came off of the VSSF.

 

[Jason_A]

I handled a stainless 700 at a shop awhile ago and I was pleasantly surprised how smooth it was.

 

[grandslam 4]

As a dealer for Thompson and Leh Precision Gun Parts, I have assembled many of the Classic Hunter Receivers
and timed each receiver when installing triggers, Most trigger must be timed as there is no SAMMI standard for trigger, You are correct even .005 cock on closing feels like a Military Enfield,
Jewel need timing regardless of what you put the on
Thanks
Lyons Gunsmithing

 

[284winner]

The new receivers are made on CNC machines and are much better than the old ones. Extraction and timing is not as good. I had much rather build on a new receiver.

I've heard that same thing from a gunsmith here. Many say the older actions run better, are smoother and straighter. He says NO. Much better built product today. Extraction and timing I haven't heard much about.

 

[JimT]

I sold a scope to a guy that has worked for Remington for 35 years. he said the problem with Remington is they start with the cheapest raw materials they can get, there is NO quality control and the company is now run by non shooters or non hunters. (bean counters)

I guess the used late model Model 700 Milspec I recently bought used that cycles great, has great lug contact and shoots half inch groups on a regular basis was made by Sako??????

 

[mike a]

As a dealer for Thompson and Leh Precision Gun Parts, I have assembled many of the Classic Hunter Receivers
and timed each receiver when installing triggers, Most trigger must be timed as there is no SAMMI standard for trigger, You are correct even .005 cock on closing feels like a Military Enfield,
Jewel need timing regardless of what you put the on
Thanks
Lyons Gunsmithing

I've been planning on a Bix and Andy sport tactical for my up coming Bighorn Origin action. I plan to install it myself. Please don't tell me it has to be timed. If so how do I connect my timing light?

 

[22DASHER]

I've been planning on a Bix and Andy sport tactical for my up coming Bighorn Origin action. I plan to install it myself. Please don't tell me it has to be timed. If so how do I connect my timing light?

Only one way to find out, get it installed.

 

[Dans40X]

It stands to reason that a POLISHED/Jewelled bolt is going to cycle smoother than a glass or sand blasted or parkerized bolt.
It's not rocket science.

4,5,6,7,A,B,C receivers from '62 to late 80's vintage are with in .060" primary extraction TIMING.
(long cam handle as I've coined them)
Faded look, purple(ish) colored handle as they were tempered/hardened.
The proverbial ding/indentation in the handle extraction cam surface that eventually pushes up a burr because the handle drafted angle DOES NOT match the receiver drafted cam surface.

D,E,G,S pre-fix serial numbered receivers are with in .080" primary extraction TIMING.
(medium cam handle as I've coined them)
Dark hot blued colored dead soft handle took blueing well.

ANY RR pre-fix serial numbered receiver is with in .125" primary extraction TIMING.
(short cam handle as I've coined them)
Dark hot blued colored slightly harder than previous production,but an engineering phuck up.

Any Remington & MOST Clones, the bolt & handle are TIMED into BATTERY & are not TIMED for PRIMARY EXTRACTION.

 

[grandslam 4]

Only one way to find out, get it installed.

If it has a cock on closing , yep must be timed ,

 

[Iowa Fox]

It stands to reason that a POLISHED/Jewelled bolt is going to cycle smoother than a glass or sand blasted or parkerized bolt.
It's not rocket science.

4,5,6,7,A,B,C receivers from '62 to late 80's vintage are with in .060" primary extraction TIMING.
(long cam handle as I've coined them)
Faded look, purple(ish) colored handle as they were tempered/hardened.
The proverbial ding/indentation in the handle extraction cam surface that eventually pushes up a burr because the handle drafted angle DOES NOT match the receiver drafted cam surface.

D,E,G,S pre-fix serial numbered receivers are with in .080" primary extraction TIMING.
(medium cam handle as I've coined them)
Dark hot blued colored dead soft handle took blueing well.

ANY RR pre-fix serial numbered receiver is with in .125" primary extraction TIMING.
(short cam handle as I've coined them)
Dark hot blued colored slightly harder than previous production,but an engineering phuck up.

Any Remington & MOST Clones, the bolt & handle are TIMED into BATTERY & are not TIMED for PRIMARY EXTRACTION.

What are the new stainless, single shot solid bottom bare actions like?