Reloading questions. Getting geared up.

[Joel Dubose]

.00002" runout? I don't even think NASA measures that close.

Seriously, if you're an engine builder then you know that the tools don't make the engine builder. Same with handloading. If that were the case I would have just bought the best equipment and produced ammo that resulted in one-hole groups. But it doesn't work that way.

As stated by other posters, don't go cheap on equipment. You'll only wind up buying the good stuff later on. And if you're new to handloading, by all means find a mentor. One who gets good results with his ammo. There is a LOT of info out there that is not in the reloading books. It only comes from experience.

Good luck.

Thats a typo as stated. It .0002

 

[Joel Dubose]

For $600 it needs to hold very tight tolerances. Look at the link

 

[Ledd Slinger]

For $600 it needs to hold very tight tolerances. Look at the link

Don't care if the die cost $10,000. It simply will not happen. Once you get some experience hand loading ammo, you will realize that brass doesn't like to stay perfect after sizing. At least not "that" perfect. You will NEVER get .0002" consistency on runout. So my suggestion is to stop worrying about it.

The die walls themselves might be machined to a consistency of .0002" runout, but your brass will never come out that way. At least not consistently cases to case.

The greatest improvement I get with case prep for accuracy comes from neck turning. It drives bullet runout down to negligible numbers and greatly helps to maintain a higher level of consistency in neck tension. Controlling neck tension is much more important in the accuracy equation.

I also like to use the adjustable K&M chamfer tool. It helps to maintain a very unform depth and angle to the chamfer all the way around the case mouth. Assists in creating equal dispersion of gases around the bullet during the crtical moment when it is entering the bore of the barrel.

Next I uniform primer pocket depths and debur the flash holes inside and out to gain more consistency with primer and powder ignition. 21st Century shooting makes a nice depth adjustable uniforming tool so you can accurately control proper primer seating depth. All very important.

There's more to case prep like trimming, annealing, and different methods of sorting, etc... but this post is getting a bit long. Listen to what these guys are telling you to buy for quality equipment. Many are high level competitors with great winning pedigrees. They know what they are talking about.

 

[clunker]

To the OP, I was asking the exact same questions with a similar thread recently and got some great advice. I'm still waiting until I have a bit more money before investing. As someone has suggested, I prefer the buy-once-cry-once approach (I don't buy cheap tools). However, trying to adopt too many new skills at once could be an exercise in frustration. It is for that reason that I will be trying to keep things simple and only spending top dollar on components that are extremely well-built, but not complicated. For what it's worth, here is my short list.

Forster CoAx Press - Simple and well-built

Unknown Die Set - Originally, I was sold on the Redding competition dies, but as stated before, there is a much higher level of complexity, and I would rather develop the basic skills first. Still researching this one, but I am considering Redding Premium series. Lots of other good dies in that price range

Hornady Die Lock Rings - No brainer. Great locks without any risk of damaging threads

Lapua Brass - Best brass available with the most reloads. Ask anyone on this forum

CCI BR4 Primers - Mostly because the factory is very close to my house and I like to buy local, but great primers nonetheless

Powder and Bullets - Whatever works. Berger, Lapua, and Nosler are on my short list

Balance - I'm picking this up for free from my research lab because it's broken, and I know I can repair it. Accuracy is .0001g (not very helpful for you)

Almost everything else - Going cheap, and I will invest in better equipment as my skill level exceeds my handloads (if that ever happens)

Best of luck,

 

[Steve Ladino]

Hi guys, i'm getting geared up to do reloads for a 6mm Creedmoore. I'm thinking about getting a Warren Custom sizing die. The guarantee.00002 runout on the case. Their sizing die also has shims that allows me to set the stop on the die to case holder as a positive stop instead of a cam over on the reloading press. I have about 200 once fired Hornady brass, 200 new Lapua 6mm creedmoore new brass, and some Starline brass in both small primer and large for testing. The Starline is new brass also. After speaking with Bob at Warren Custom tool, he said to just use the Lapua for consistency purposes. I need to fire some of this brass to send to him and wanted to get a bullet seater to build rounds to fire form the brass before sending it to him.
Im looking for advice here on what direction to go, to get started. I need to buy everything, so all advice is welcome. Thanks in advance for helping buy once instead of buying over and over. I'm looking for ultimate accuracy and precision. Extreme low tolerances on everything.

Be advised that the barrel on the 6 mm creed will only last so long and then you will likely replace it with an aftermarket tube or sell the gun. Dies custom sized for the Rugers chamber may not be what you want for the next chamber.

 

[wholman]

sounds like he is not needing advice but selling something.

 

[wholman]

If I am wrong I am sorry.

 

[JFrank]

Be advised that the barrel on the 6 mm creed will only last so long and then you will likely replace it with an aftermarket tube or sell the gun. Dies custom sized for the Rugers chamber may not be what you want for the next chamber.

^^^
That is an excellent point!

 

[dgeesaman]

.00002" runout? I don't even think NASA measures that close.

It is an impressive claim, but pretty much ridiculous when you consider that no piece of brass or chamber is that straight to begin with even if the number is actually .0002. Keeping runout below .002" is enough for most any application.

David

 

[Joel Dubose]

I made the first purchase tonight.
RCBS Rockchucker
RCBS powder thrower lite
Redding S type 2 die match system. Full lenght and neck all in 1. And competition micrometer seater
21 centry primer hand tool
A bunch of individual items to make it all work. Like funnels, deburring tools, case lube, etc.
I've been buying brass, different bullets to try, 115 Dtac, 110 SMK, 105 RDF Nosler etc. Primers of various types to test. 450, BR4, 205M 205MAR
Trays concentricity and run-out gauges
Also looking at ways to do loads at the range,
Harrwell press, and wilson.
I'm probably going to go ahead and order custom dies after I properly fire form some brass. I have a lot to get settled on before I do that.
Buying a lab radar next week, I don't need it yet.
I appreciate all your help. Let me know if I missed anything to get started here from my list. As I sat here typing I thought of one thing and that's a vld seating stem, but if you see anything else lmk. Also if you think that I need to make a change from what I got lmk that to and why.
As for the custom dies, I'm not settled yet on what I think. I was kind of looking for your thoughts on it. There were a few details that I liked on the one that I posted about but I'm also looking at the Widden Custom dies. He has come highly recommended in the circles that I run with. I'm probably going to call him and have a conversation at some point, I'm hoping that it took a look at the die that I posted about. It will help with our conversation.
The things that I liked might be common in custom dies not sure.

 

[Ledd Slinger]

To the OP, I was asking the exact same questions with a similar thread recently and got some great advice. I'm still waiting until I have a bit more money before investing. As someone has suggested, I prefer the buy-once-cry-once approach (I don't buy cheap tools). However, trying to adopt too many new skills at once could be an exercise in frustration. It is for that reason that I will be trying to keep things simple and only spending top dollar on components that are extremely well-built, but not complicated. For what it's worth, here is my short list.

Forster CoAx Press - Simple and well-built

Unknown Die Set - Originally, I was sold on the Redding competition dies, but as stated before, there is a much higher level of complexity, and I would rather develop the basic skills first. Still researching this one, but I am considering Redding Premium series. Lots of other good dies in that price range

Hornady Die Lock Rings - No brainer. Great locks without any risk of damaging threads

Lapua Brass - Best brass available with the most reloads. Ask anyone on this forum

CCI BR4 Primers - Mostly because the factory is very close to my house and I like to buy local, but great primers nonetheless

Powder and Bullets - Whatever works. Berger, Lapua, and Nosler are on my short list

Balance - I'm picking this up for free from my research lab because it's broken, and I know I can repair it. Accuracy is .0001g (not very helpful for you)

Almost everything else - Going cheap, and I will invest in better equipment as my skill level exceeds my handloads (if that ever happens)

Best of luck,

1) Forster Co-ax press is a good choice. Quick die changes and the S-jaws are very nice. Tho I prefer FL sizing on a press with a sturdier shell holder system. So I only use my Co-ax for seating. You can buy a standard shell holder adapter for the Co-ax, but then you take away the convenience of the S-jaws.

2) For the price of Redding Competition dies, you might as well go with a Whidden die set. Much better quality and custom fit to your chamber for nearly the same price.

2) For lock rings, I prefer Forster. They are designed to work perfectly in the Co-ax press so it just makes sense to use them if you have that press. Also have cross bolt locking mechanism that won't damage die threads.

3) Primers can be like bullets. Quality may change lot to lot. So for me they fall in the same line as bullets and powder with "whatever works". I always have many different brands of primers on hand for testing (CCI, Federal, Remington, etc).

4) Good list to start, but certain bullet manufacturers like Berger and other custom bullet makers (Vapor Trail, Barts, JLK) will yield much tighter tolerances and consistency with bullet dimensions and weights than brands like Nosler and Hornady. Lapua bullets can be good, but I've never got them to shoot quite as good as Berger in any rifle. Nosler bullets are not very consistent. You can sort them out, but you will have a lot more cull pieces than you would with Berger and Lapua.

5) Don't know if I would risk a "broken" scale. It needs to be extremely accurate and always repeatable. Even if you get it running, there's no guarantee it will work right. But since it's free, I suppose it's worth a shot. If it doesn't work out, look into buying a AND FX-120i scale.

6) You can go cheap on some things, but dont go cheap on a neck turning tool. That is a very important piece of equipment for case prep and it needs to be very precise. I like the 21st Century neck turning tool, but there are other very nice neck turners out there that will keep tight dimensions.

 

[Peebles24]

Just this summer i jumped feet first down the rabbit hole (precision reloading) blindfolded with earplugs in. I didnt buy the most expensive stuff but i spent quite a bit. I should have listened more to the great people here. I did go with the whidden dies click adjust fl bushing die, and am very happy. After i stopped depriming while sizing my runout went to .001 to .002.
This is my loading setup and i have a lot of wind reading and shooting to learn before i could possibly out shoot my reloads. I did add a annealeez after this pic was taken.

 

[JFrank]

I've loaded right at my bench until the wind came up, we have another spot against the wall to solve that"

I made the first purchase tonight.
RCBS Rockchucker
RCBS powder thrower lite
Redding S type 2 die match system. Full lenght and neck all in 1. And competition micrometer seater
21 centry primer hand tool
A bunch of individual items to make it all work. Like funnels, deburring tools, case lube, etc.
I've been buying brass, different bullets to try, 115 Dtac, 110 SMK, 105 RDF Nosler etc. Primers of various types to test. 450, BR4, 205M 205MAR
Trays concentricity and run-out gauges
Also looking at ways to do loads at the range,
Harrwell press, and wilson.
I'm probably going to go ahead and order custom dies after I properly fire form some brass. I have a lot to get settled on before I do that.
Buying a lab radar next week, I don't need it yet.
I appreciate all your help. Let me know if I missed anything to get started here from my list. As I sat here typing I thought of one thing and that's a vld seating stem, but if you see anything else lmk. Also if you think that I need to make a change from what I got lmk that to and why.
As for the custom dies, I'm not settled yet on what I think. I was kind of looking for your thoughts on it. There were a few details that I liked on the one that I posted about but I'm also looking at the Widden Custom dies. He has come highly recommended in the circles that I run with. I'm probably going to call him and have a conversation at some point, I'm hoping that it took a look at the die that I posted about. It will help with our conversation.
The things that I liked might be common in custom dies not sure.

 

[rardoin]

Joel, I have a Warner Tool Co. die with inserts for 3 different chamberings..soon to be 4. PM sent

 

[Falfan2017]

Bullets are important. Try some Berger 108 and some custom like Bart's hammers or vapor trails

 

[Barlow]

Once in a while I will open my micrometer to .001 just to see how big it is, trying to keep things in perspective. Barlow

 

[JFrank]

Once in a while I will open my micrometer to .001 just to see how big it is, trying to keep things in perspective. Barlow

Human Hair .0015

 

[dgeesaman]

I made the first purchase tonight.
RCBS Rockchucker
RCBS powder thrower lite
Redding S type 2 die match system. Full lenght and neck all in 1. And competition micrometer seater
21 centry primer hand tool
A bunch of individual items to make it all work. Like funnels, deburring tools, case lube, etc.
I've been buying brass, different bullets to try, 115 Dtac, 110 SMK, 105 RDF Nosler etc. Primers of various types to test. 450, BR4, 205M 205MAR
Trays concentricity and run-out gauges
Also looking at ways to do loads at the range,
Harrwell press, and wilson.
I'm probably going to go ahead and order custom dies after I properly fire form some brass.

As for the custom dies, I'm not settled yet on what I think. I was kind of looking for your thoughts on it.

Agreed, the value of a custom die depends on how far apart your standard die and rifle chamber turn out to be. You need a micrometer and some fired brass.

If you’re feeling adventurous look up chamber casting. That requires no firings.

In my Sako 6ppc’s, the chamber shoulder was long and the diameter just below the shoulder was .004” larger than the die was sizing. So FL sizing with my Redding and Forster does was too extreme on both body diameter and shoulder length.

I opted to get a Harrell’s semi-custom die. Now the sizing is mild enough I can do it each time.

Whidden custom dies are certainly very good. Forster dies arrive with a smallish dimension but they will hone them open to match your brass very cheaply so that’s another great option.

David