Reloading pistol for self-defense

[GetReal]

A theory question that has direct implications for the real world:

While the bullet chosen for self-defense pistol ammo is fairly readily apparent, the powder chosen is not.

Naturally you want to go with the powder the powder manufacturers recommend for the bullet weight being used.

My question more affects the charge or amount of powder used as it will determine the velocity of the round fired. I often see pistol rounds going through 20 to 22 in of gelatin which if the round Fired doesn't hit something solid in a self-defense shooting, it has the potential to go through the Target and endanger innocent bystanders.

So..... questions : . Does this affect your choice and quantity of powder in the powder charge? What velocity for what grain weight projectile do you try to reload for ? Or do you just want a bullet going as fast as possible? Is 22 inches of ballistic gelatin a reasonable facsimile of the circumstance of a self-defense shooting? What if anything else do you do to be as safe and responsible as possible in loading yourself defense rounds?

My goal is to be wise and responsible in my reloading, to not endanger others and also not leave myself open to a criminal or civil charge in how I choose my loads.

I understand reloading self-defense ammo itself could be used against me, but I don't consider that a meritorious argument and still choose to reload my self-defense rounds.

Thanks for any help on the questions I asked above.

 

[BHP9]

A lot of shooters recommend seeing what your local PD uses or just go with the FBI ammo rather than loading your own, due to some shyster lawyer saying that your ammo was designed for maximum destruction and that could possibly have a jury/judge say guilty.

This could also mean that your purchase a few boxes of different loads to make sure of function and accuracy in your gun.

 

[GLShooter]

I worked with the Fed BOP. They just bought low bid ammo. No regards to performance. Hell they went from FGMM 308 to PMC "MATCH " for our precision rifles and all around the USA our snipers found out that they couldn't hit a T Zone with a baseball bat. I raised hell with Central Office and suddenly the FGMM started showing up. Thank God for networking and reputation

 

[rr2030]

Much quality ammo available. I would not spend any time working up a self defense load for anything.

YMMV

 

[Doom]

You do not want to be in a courtroom trying to defend your reloading when your freedom is on the line. It gives the opposition one more item to cast dispersions on in front of 12 people that don't know a thing about ballistics or reloading. Questions like:

Why did you make your own ammunition?
Why did you load to make your rounds more deadly?
How do you now your rounds are more/less lethal than commercial ammunition?

Does it make a difference? How do you like your odds in Vegas?

 

[358WCF]

I carry factory loads in my carry guns for the above stated reasons. It seems like 22" is a lot of penetration. The average human is 12-15" deep, I believe, plus whatever clothes they have on. We're not deer hunting & a blood trail isn't necessarily a good thing. Ideally you want the projectile to stay inside whoever you may need to shoot in most situations. Not much in the world is ideal, but...

Massad Ayoob has a few interesting things on yootoob that explain his daily carry choices & why.

This is a pretty good resource too.

Handgun Self-Defense Ammunition - Ballistic Testing Data

Lucky Gunner tests more than 110 different 9mm, 45 ACP, 40 S&W and 380 ACP handgun self-defense ammunition loads in ballistic gel with analysis and video.

www.luckygunner.com

 

[GetReal]

@358WCF ... thanks for actually answering some of the questions I asked and not giving your opinion on something I said I have already come to a conclusion on.

Factory self defense ammo typically is too hot, and risks going through the target and endangering innocent bystanders so I would like to minimize that danger and avoid that accusation in court. I'd like to avoid having to explain in court why I chose a factory round te
widely known to over penetrate that endangers innocent bystanders

 

[cem]

OK nothing to say here

 

[GetReal]

@cem ... if you use Factory loads they' ll demonize you for choosing a known over penetrator ammo and if you use hand loads they'll demonize you for making killer bullets. They'll demonize you no matter what you do.

In other words ignore their demonization cuz they'll demonize you no matter what you do.

Instead I'll base my decision on fact, science, logic, known reality and argue for my own defense from those things and thereby show their demonization to be illegitimate and bogus.

This is why I specifically said I didn't want to discuss the lawyer issues in my original post and I will humbly ask people to stop raising that issue. It is off topic and not the information I specifically ask questions to get.

 

[CJ6]

Lawyers will ruin your life in court with handloads for self defense

 

[GetReal]

Lawyers will ruin your life in court with handloads for self defense

I specifically asked people in the original post not to go to the lawyer issues cuz I've already made up my mind on that issue. I asked specific questions to get specific information which is what I want and I will humbly ask people to stop bringing up the lawyer issues.

If that's all you've got to talk about, I'll ask you to not reply.

 

[joshb]

If you empty your gun, how are they going to know you shot reloads?

 

[CJ6]

I specifically asked people in the original post not to go to the lawyer issues cuz I've already made up my mind on that issue. I asked specific questions to get specific information which is what I want and I will humbly ask people to stop bringing up the lawyer issues.

If that's all you've got to talk about, I'll ask you to not reply.

Well load +p+ loads of VV 3N37 and 147 jhp Hornadys.

 

[DDRanch]

Darn if you do, Darn if you don't!

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

Likely one way or another(criminal or civil) you will be in a courtroom. Which also means you survived, I figure that means my ammo worked. Nothing more or less.

 

[GetReal]

Likely one way or another(criminal or civil) you will be in a courtroom. Which also means you survived, I figure that means my ammo worked. Nothing more or less.

Agree.

 

[GetReal]

Well load +p+ loads of VV 3N37 and 147 jhp Hornadys.

Likely has over penetration danger. And a lot of pistol manufacturers warn against using + P + ammo.

 

[ELR LVR]

better to be tried by 12
than carried by 6
---
when it comes to self-defense, be able to use anything available to you as a weapon
A sword
a Knife
a Rock
Reloads

 

[kenhwind]

I carry a Detective Special .38 special with Federal 158 Grain LSWCHP.
Over penetration is the least of my worries.
If I was to carry my loads it would still be a 158 grain LSWC or maybe a jacketed soft point. Again, overpenetration is the least of my worries.

With a 9mm or 45 I feel the same way.

 

[Oso]

I think you need to determine your bullet selection first. You’ll need to test the bullet to determine minimum velocity that bullet still performs (ie expansion, fragmentation, etc).

As to which Powder - the cartridge and barrel length will drive your powder selection. I suspect that you will find a fair selection of powders that will be suitable and achieve the desired velocity. The next step is narrowing down that selection by comparing such factors as:
1. How well does powder perform when used for lighter loads?
> assuming decreasing charge weight to reduce excess penetration
> some powders require +90% case fill to burn efficiently, whereas other powders aren’t effected (Titegroup, Bullseye, etc)
2. Is powder positionally sensitive when low charge weights (low case fill)?
3. How complete does powder burn in your barrel length?
> You don’t want to throw a bunch of powder out end of barrel to ignite into fireball that blinds you
4. How smokey is the powder?
> You don’t want a powder that produces giant smoke cloud that interfere with your vision as it reflects back the light from your flash light … aka White Out.

#3 & #4 Most people don’t think about this unless they have done some night shooting. It’s a big wake up that makes people rethink their practice loads and defense loads. I can tell you that Titegroup and Bullseye perform quite well. Unique and shotgun powders don’t fair so well for reduced charge weights and night issues. I’m sure there are plenty of other powders that will perform admirably… you just have to put in the time testing/developing the load.

I would suggest that you give some serious thought to the advice given by many… buy factory defensive ammo. This is a real issue that can turn a straightforward “stand your ground” into something else. My personal motto, “I am too pretty for prison.” This has helped me steer clear of a lot of bad decisions. Load all the Bear round and Zombie rounds that you want, but use factory defensive ammo in your carry pistol.

There are some informative videos on testing defensive ammunition for the amount of penetration through walls. Federal Guard Dog ammunition flattens out resulting in less penetration through walls.