Reloading Berger 80.5 grain full bore .223

[liseo]

I recently changed the barrel on my Borden 223. Now the barrel is Krieger HV 1/7 tw.
Very good results with berger 80.5 FB and 23.7 grains of VV N150

 

[rebs]

What twist does your barrel have?
What group size would you say you are getting jumped?
What group size would you say you are getting jammed?

Have you also tried other bullets? Maybe the Sierra SMK 80?

twist is 1 in 8, barrel is 24". group sizes are about 2 1/2 inch

 

[rebs]

You should test more than two powder charges, closer to each other than .5gr

I will give that a try

 

[RegionRat]

twist is 1 in 8, barrel is 24". group sizes are about 2 1/2 inch

I agree something isn't right based on my assumption that much worse guns have shot those bullets much better than 2.5 MOA.

I just realized you are using the same gun as the OP, and you can see how that runs in post #21.

rebs, I don't know your background, so forgive these next questions.

Have you ever loaded ammo that runs below 1 MOA or are you still learning?

Have you ever shot a highpower (or rimfire) rifle into less than 0.5 MOA or are you still learning?

You will get better advice if folks know where you are on those two scales.

 

[rebs]

I agree something isn't right based on my assumption that much worse guns have shot those bullets much better than 2.5 MOA.

I just realized you are using the same gun as the OP, and you can see how that runs in post #21.

rebs, I don't know your background, so forgive these next questions.

Have you ever loaded ammo that runs below 1 MOA or are you still learning?

Have you ever shot a highpower (or rimfire) rifle into less than 0.5 MOA or are you still learning?

You will get better advice if folks know where you are on those two scales.

I have been reloading and shooting for quite a long time.
My rifle shoots 80 gr SMK's to 1 1/2 inch at 300 yds
My Savage 22 shoots 1" at 100 yds. I won our clubs 100 YD 22 cal league championship last summer

I am just having a hard time with the Berger 80.5 full bore bullets.

 

[Jeff Porter]

2.5" at 300 - or just under 1 MOA is your results.

This may sound weird but I was seeing similar numbers in a 20" service rifle and found on a couple of different occasions that the 80.5 sweet spot was waaaay off the lands at 0.090" and even 0.130" off of touch. Most other times I will find a tightening of the groups betwen 0.010 and 0.040 off but when I was getting similar "meh' results in that range so I ran the full range on the Berger VLD test for grins and found the best was clear back there. Also found this in a totally different bullet (75 Amax) in a 1:8 Kreiger 26" bolt gun wanted to be 0.090" jump. If close isn't working try a big jump.

 

[rebs]

I'm running this projectile in a Tikka Varmint. I use ADI (Aussie made) brass. Comparable with Lapua. 25gr Varget (AR2208 in Australia). CCI 450 primers. Nil pressure issues and just over 2900fps. A mate runs the exact same charge weight however is using 80gr VLD's in a factory Tikka varmint and Lapua brass. His barrel has over 4000 rounds through it, most used in highpower and rapid fire matches. Rifle has been used out to 900 yards in comps with success. His rifle still groups under 1/2 MOA at 100 yards. My load shoots the same. Target attached is his 10 shots at 300 yards in a comp with QMRC club at Belmont range in QLD, Australia. 2 sec snap exposures. Belly on the ground shooting in a tactical style comp, no fancy front rests or rear bags. Tricky switching winds around on this day.

what depth are you seating them to? I have the Tikka Varmint 223 also.

 

[RegionRat]

Rebs,

what depth are you seating them to? I have the Tikka Varmint 223 also.

rebs, his post was from a long time ago and if you hover your cursor over his avatar you will find he hasn't been seen on the forum since 2019. You may not hear back from him.

Seeing that you are getting 2.5"/100 out of the Berger 80.5, but less than 1.5"/300 yards from the SMK 80, says you can load and shoot the difference.

I will admit that it does sound like one of the bigger instances of a gun loving one and hating the other that I can remember. Anyone who can load and shoot SMK 80 into 0.5 MOA at 300 yards is capable of finding a charge and seating depth if there was one to be found.

 

[rebs]

Rebs,

rebs, his post was from a long time ago and if you hover your cursor over his avatar you will find he hasn't been seen on the forum since 2019. You may not hear back from him.

Seeing that you are getting 2.5"/100 out of the Berger 80.5, but less than 1.5"/300 yards from the SMK 80, says you can load and shoot the difference.

I will admit that it does sound like one of the bigger instances of a gun loving one and hating the other that I can remember. Anyone who can load and shoot SMK 80 into 0.5 MOA at 300 yards is capable of finding a charge and seating depth if there was one to be found.

I am going to start at touch and load back in .003 increments til I find a seating depth if I can.

 

[RegionRat]

If you can seat rounds at the range, you will go home with confident answers instead of needing to make more round trips.

With a minimal investment in tools, you show up with pre loaded ammo that is loaded long and keep working till you find a group that makes you happy. If you are interested, you can keep going and really study how hi/low that seating node value is before you quit.

If you are curious, also try some at a jam of roughly 0.005- 0.015.

Even if you don't really want to run with jam, you get a view of that baseline performance. Just be careful that you are not running so hot with the load that the slight increase in pressure at jam is enough to tip the load over. In 223 with Berger 80.5 or SMK 80, you can get roughly 4 or 5 KSI of extra pressure when comparing jam to jump.

You can run pretty warm with 223, as long as you understand the limits of the brass. Many F-T/R shooters are okay with short brass life when it keeps them competitive at MR and LR distances. If you are sure you are only interest in 300 yards, then you can drop to a lower charge but the seating depth work will usually hold between both levels.

Sometimes bouncing between charges or seating depths means going back and touching up the other... but since we are talking about your rig being factors worse with the B 80.5 versus the SMK 80, then you probably will be happy or you will abandon it.

I wish you luck and have a feeling something in your B 80.5 test was wonky and that it should shoot pretty close to the SMK 80 for you. No guarantees, but I think you will find it.

 

[jlorenzo]

I recently changed the barrel on my Borden 223. Now the barrel is Krieger HV 1/7 tw.
Very good results with berger 80.5 FB and 23.7 grains of VV N150

What kind of velocity with n150 and how long is your barrel?

 

[liseo]

What kind of velocity with n150 and how long is your barrel?

2813 FPS with 30" barrel

 

[rebs]

If you can seat rounds at the range, you will go home with confident answers instead of needing to make more round trips.

With a minimal investment in tools, you show up with pre loaded ammo that is loaded long and keep working till you find a group that makes you happy. If you are interested, you can keep going and really study how hi/low that seating node value is before you quit.

If you are curious, also try some at a jam of roughly 0.005- 0.015.

Even if you don't really want to run with jam, you get a view of that baseline performance. Just be careful that you are not running so hot with the load that the slight increase in pressure at jam is enough to tip the load over. In 223 with Berger 80.5 or SMK 80, you can get roughly 4 or 5 KSI of extra pressure when comparing jam to jump.

You can run pretty warm with 223, as long as you understand the limits of the brass. Many F-T/R shooters are okay with short brass life when it keeps them competitive at MR and LR distances. If you are sure you are only interest in 300 yards, then you can drop to a lower charge but the seating depth work will usually hold between both levels.

Sometimes bouncing between charges or seating depths means going back and touching up the other... but since we are talking about your rig being factors worse with the B 80.5 versus the SMK 80, then you probably will be happy or you will abandon it.

I wish you luck and have a feeling something in your B 80.5 test was wonky and that it should shoot pretty close to the SMK 80 for you. No guarantees, but I think you will find it.

I loaded a few more with different powder charges and got them to shoot much better Now I am going to do a seating depth test

 

[rebs]

This was my powder charge test at 100yds. Tomorrow I will take them out to 300 for a seating depth test. With these results I am going to load 24.7 gr power and should have a little room on both sides of the load. Does anyoe have any other suggestions?

 

[rebs]

What twist does your barrel have?
What group size would you say you are getting jumped?
What group size would you say you are getting jammed?

Have you also tried other bullets? Maybe the Sierra SMK 80?

barrel is a 1 in 8 twist. I haven't tried jamming

 

[RegionRat]

barrel is a 1 in 8 twist. I haven't tried jamming

You are making progress.

When you go to 300 for your next tests, be patient with yourself.

Things may look better or worse than the work you did at 100, but give yourself time to learn the ropes.

Shoot a few sessions with your selected loads and use the opportunity to check the charge weights again before you go straight to seating depth.

This will teach you what your capabilities are and set a baseline to be able to establish if any seating depth testing shows a change that isn't random noise.

There is the significant difference in the contribution of wind at 300 yards, so don't over react if you see the groups open up more than they did at 100. Good Luck.

 

[Chilly807]

With the same rifle, 223 T3X Varmint, I've had good success using 25 thou of jump for the 80.5 Fullbore bullets. I'm using 23.8 grains of N140, Federal 205 match primers.
Velocity is just under 2800 fps.
5 thou of jump worked fairly well too, but I don't like being close to the lands.