Reloading Berger 80.5 grain full bore .223

[jlow]

Thanks for all the inputs! Much appreciated!

Ran an OCW at 100 yards today with the Tikka/Berger 80.5 combo. It looks like my initial MV estimates of based on single rounds per charge weight was a bit conservative. Today I extended the powder range from 22.9 to 24.5 grain Varget with no problem – very slight cratering at the high charges. MV ranged from 2,666 fps to 2,862 fps. Every group was sub-MOA with most at 0.5 MOA and one as low as 0.39 MOA. Sdev too was excellent with four groups sub 10 fps – so pretty happy.

I re-adjusted QL and it looks like I can in fact reach Node 4 with around 25.4 grains of Varget with an extrapolated MV of 2,970 fps and pressure of 51,888 psi. Since this is just a trainer, I wonder if it is worth pushing it to that MV?

Just looking at the last three charge weight POI, very little movement. If I can tighten the groups with seating depth, that might be a winner. My brass would certainly last longer…. Any thoughts?

 

[swadiver]

28" Bartlein, 1 in 7.7 twist on a Savage 10 action. only 5 shots, but the ES was 17 fps and the SD was 6 fps. going out Tuesday to explore more around the 23.5 gr area. it still had some vertical in it. at 24 grs, the group opened up and the ES and SD jumped up considerably

Took the .223 out to 100 yds last week to to test seating depth with 80.5 Berger Fullbores.. i am surprised how sensitve they seem to be to seating depth. 23.0 grs of H4895 used for all the groups, having been the best load so far @ 100yds. the ES/SD numbers are still so so, however. SD was 12 over 10 shots at the best seating depth, which is just on the lands

the best two groups, on the left, are at .000". the single middle group is -.015" and the two groups on the right are +.002". pretty weird that with only .002" difference, the +.002 groups had the vertical flyers. the rifle is being tested on a concrete bench with a stock/front/rear rest combo that supports free recoil shooting, so i don't think it's the Indian pulling the string here.

off to the 600 yd range on Monday to see how 23.0 H4895 load on the lands does there.

all 5 shot groups

 

[jlow]

Took the .223 out to 100 yds last week to to test seating depth with 80.5 Berger Fullbores.. i am surprised how sensitve they seem to be to seating depth. 23.0 grs of H4895 used for all the groups, having been the best load so far @ 100yds. the ES/SD numbers are still so so, however. SD was 12 over 10 shots at the best seating depth, which is just on the lands

the best two groups, on the left, are at .000". the single middle group is -.015" and the two groups on the right are +.002". pretty weird that with only .002" difference, the +.002 groups had the vertical flyers. the rifle is being tested on a concrete bench with a stock/front/rear rest combo that supports free recoil shooting, so i don't think it's the Indian pulling the string here.

off to the 600 yd range on Monday to see how 23.0 H4895 load on the lands does there.

all 5 shot groups

Looks decent thus far.

FWIW, I generally don’t do “0.000”seating depth (I am assuming that means touching depth, but not sure) as at least for me, it is impossible to get that kind of accuracy in figuring out touch depth. Add to that slight differences in BTO length for the bullets (yes even Bergers), and not 100% true headspace if you are using a Hornady modified case, etc, one is almost never that precise.

Most of us start around 10 thousands off lands unless working with a VLD in which case we will be dealing with jamming. Once you finish doing initial powder weight optimization, we change seating depths at 3 thousands intervals and usually you find your best depth within 15 thousands. Making big jumps in seating depth like 15 thousands is probably too much as you might miss the best depth.

 

[swadiver]

Looks decent thus far.

FWIW, I generally don’t do “0.000”seating depth (I am assuming that means touching depth, but not sure) as at least for me, it is impossible to get that kind of accuracy in figuring out touch depth. Add to that slight differences in BTO length for the bullets (yes even Bergers), and not 100% true headspace if you are using a Hornady modified case, etc, one is almost never that precise.

Most of us start around 10 thousands off lands unless working with a VLD in which case we will be dealing with jamming. Once you finish doing initial powder weight optimization, we change seating depths at 3 thousands intervals and usually you find your best depth within 15 thousands. Making big jumps in seating depth like 15 thousands is probably too much as you might miss the best depth.

your right and i generally agree, but having tried a bunch of different seating depths both off and into the lands, the most consistent groups i have gotten were either on the lands or slightly jammed. for the reasons you mentioned, i would hope to find a seating depth that works as well not just on the lands. i did try 5 thousands off as well but it did work as well as on the lands. after i see how it goes at 600 yds, i may explore some other off the lands depths.

interesting also, i shoot the 73 gr Bergers for short range stuff, they are amazingly accurate, shooting in the .2's" and .3's" consistently and sometimes in the .1's". they also liked to be jammed slightly or on the lands.

 

[jlow]

your right and i generally agree, but having tried a bunch of different seating depths both off and into the lands, the most consistent groups i have gotten were either on the lands or slightly jammed. for the reasons you mentioned, i would hope to find a seating depth that works as well not just on the lands. i did try 5 thousands off as well but it did work as well as on the lands. after i see how it goes at 600 yds, i may explore some other off the lands depths.

interesting also, i shoot the 73 gr Bergers for short range stuff, they are amazingly accurate, shooting in the .2's" and .3's" consistently and sometimes in the .1's". they also liked to be jammed slightly or on the lands.

The problem of just “on the lands” or touching is if you are just slightly off with some of the rounds, then you will have some rounds that are Jumped and others that are jammed and they have significantly different pressure/MV. This is why we either definitely jam or is far enough away to be definitely jumping.

The 73s definitely shoot great, it's too bad that they are no heavy/long enough for the longer range shots.

 

[Nude nut]

Hi chaps,
I was trying the 80gr nosler for a cheaper option for my lad but just couldnt get it to sing so loaded up some 80.5gr bergers look out it hummed.

1.8 twist truflite 30 in
Lap brass
80.5gr berger
24.8gr 2208
cci 450
5 thou in
Oal 2.490.
Havnt tested for velocity at aguees around 2900 fps
10 shots 60.9 X at 300yrd of bipod and rear bag was rather pleased hor the rifle is shooting now.

Cheers Trev.

 

[ranger3]

I along with someone else use 80 berger with 24.3 gr varget with very good results, oh but win brass and 205m primers.

 

[jlow]

The 80 grain Bergers are VLDs, so different than the 80.5 Match Full Bore and yes, the powder, case and primers are going to make a difference not to mention if there is significant difference in freebore, it will affect seating depth and that would make a huge difference.

 

[Linko]

I have been working up loads on Berger VLDs. I dont know anything about these 80.5s I guess they have a different profile than the VLD.

 

[Ned Ludd]

The 80.5 is a tangent ogive bullet, as opposed to the secant ogive found on the 80 VLD. Sometimes (although not always), the more abrupt transition between the ogive and the bearing surface on secant ogive bullets makes them more sensitive or finicky with regard to seating depth than the smooth transition on tangent ogive bullets. In my hands, the 80.5s have seemed to tune in pretty easily between .015" and .020" off the lands, but every setup/load may be slightly different.

 

[jlow]

The 80.5 is a tangent ogive bullet, as opposed to the secant ogive found on the 80 VLD. Sometimes (although not always), the more abrupt transition between the ogive and the bearing surface on secant ogive bullets makes them more sensitive or finicky with regard to seating depth than the smooth transition on tangent ogive bullets. In my hands, the 80.5s have seemed to tune in pretty easily between .015" and .020" off the lands, but every setup/load may be slightly different.

Went out and shot a seating depth study with the 80.5 Berger Full Bore today with the 24.1 grain load. Gstaylorg is pretty much dead on – at 18 thousand off, end up shooting a 0.2MOA 3 round group. The two shorter (- 3 thousands) and longer (+ 3 thousands) seated rounds on either side was still giving me 0.2-0.3 MOA groups. So it looks like I have my optimal seating depth. Now to go out and confirm with 5 round groups.

 

[swadiver]

Interesting. i may have to give the -.017" to -.020" seating depth range a try.

however, I did get out to 600 yds today with my 23.0gr H4895/"on the lands" load.

fortunately, winds were light early this morning, with a moderate mirage, so i was able to see how they would perform under near ideal conditions.

shooting on an F Class 600 yd target, i shot 5 sighters and then 45 "for record." so out of 450 points possible, i shot a total of 420 points ( 3 nine ring shots) and 23 x's. overall pretty happy with the results. for me, this rifle will be a practice F/TR rifle. for the actual competitions, i shoot a .308. i figure this is a relatively inexpensive way to practice, particularly my wind reading /correcting skills, as i am fairly new at mid and long range shooting.

finally figured out how to post the E Targets pics from my I Pad

 

[jlow]

Interesting. i may have to give the -.017" to -.020" seating depth range a try.

however, I did get out to 600 yds today with my 23.0gr H4895/"on the lands" load.

fortunately, winds were light early this morning, with a moderate mirage, so i was able to see how they would perform under near ideal conditions.

shooting on an F Class 600 yd target, i shot 5 sighters and then 45 "for record." so out of 450 points possible, i shot a total of 420 points ( 3 nine ring shots) and 23 x's. overall pretty happy with the results. for me, this rifle will be a practice F/TR rifle. for the actual competitions, i shoot a .308. i figure this is a relatively inexpensive way to practice, particularly my wind reading /correcting skills, as i am fairly new at mid and long range shooting.

Sounds promising, I've yet to do this. Probably in a couple of weeks when 600 yard practice is running. This is also basically my F Class practice gun. BTW, what MV are you getting with that barrel?

 

[swadiver]

averaging about 2830 fps. i would like to get it up to over 2900 fps if i can with good accuracy. i think i found another load up around 24 grs of H4895 that looked promising, so i may give that a try as well

 

[jlow]

averaging about 2830 fps. i would like to get it up to over 2900 fps if i can with good accuracy. i think i found another load up around 24 grs of H4895 that looked promising, so i may give that a try as well

That's around what I am getting.

 

[Luke777]

I'm running this projectile in a Tikka Varmint. I use ADI (Aussie made) brass. Comparable with Lapua. 25gr Varget (AR2208 in Australia). CCI 450 primers. Nil pressure issues and just over 2900fps. A mate runs the exact same charge weight however is using 80gr VLD's in a factory Tikka varmint and Lapua brass. His barrel has over 4000 rounds through it, most used in highpower and rapid fire matches. Rifle has been used out to 900 yards in comps with success. His rifle still groups under 1/2 MOA at 100 yards. My load shoots the same. Target attached is his 10 shots at 300 yards in a comp with QMRC club at Belmont range in QLD, Australia. 2 sec snap exposures. Belly on the ground shooting in a tactical style comp, no fancy front rests or rear bags. Tricky switching winds around on this day.

Gday Dino67, mate I am wondering whether your rig is a T3 or a T3X? I have a T3X varmint and have run into challenges with short chamber throat and subsequent seating depth restriction with bigger projectiles. I have purchased a throating reamer but to be honest I’m a tad nervous on using it. The reason I ask is that I am thinking that Tikka shortened up the throat on the new T3X , perhaps to combat complaints on OAL restrictions because of magazine length. But the lads I know with the older T3 varmints seem to be able to seat out longer (longer throats ??). Any advice on loading for longer ranges in the Tikka 223 appreciated mate. Great shooting on that target in the photo by the way! I’m in Cairns up north.

 

[260AckImp]

Gday Dino67, mate I am wondering whether your rig is a T3 or a T3X? I have a T3X varmint and have run into challenges with short chamber throat and subsequent seating depth restriction with bigger projectiles. I have purchased a throating reamer but to be honest I’m a tad nervous on using it. The reason I ask is that I am thinking that Tikka shortened up the throat on the new T3X , perhaps to combat complaints on OAL restrictions because of magazine length. But the lads I know with the older T3 varmints seem to be able to seat out longer (longer throats ??). Any advice on loading for longer ranges in the Tikka 223 appreciated mate. Great shooting on that target in the photo by the way! I’m in Cairns up north.

I found the exact same thing with my Tikka T3X Stainless Varmint in 223. Ive just run a seating depth test with the 80.5 Fullbores and found they like a 0.030 jump. My touching lands length is 1.943" base to ogive and am seeing that the original T3's were longer in the throat than the newer T3X. Have attached pic of my seating test, I found in my rifle anything 24.5gr and over of Varget (2208 in Aus) was really flattening primers and I started to get some marks on the Lapua brass bases from the bolt extracting the case.

 

[rebs]

I have a Tikka T3x varmint in 223 and my touching lands is 1.956. I have not had much luck with seating depth tests shooting Berger 80.5 full bore's with 24.0 and 24.5 of Varget. I shoot at 300 yds. Does anyone have any suggestions? I would appreciate any help.

 

[RegionRat]

What twist does your barrel have?
What group size would you say you are getting jumped?
What group size would you say you are getting jammed?

Have you also tried other bullets? Maybe the Sierra SMK 80?

 

[Jdne5b]

I have a Tikka T3x varmint in 223 and my touching lands is 1.956. I have not had much luck with seating depth tests shooting Berger 80.5 full bore's with 24.0 and 24.5 of Varget. I shoot at 300 yds. Does anyone have any suggestions? I would appreciate any help.

You should test more than two powder charges, closer to each other than .5gr