Redding seater die is killing me

[243winxb]

Tech Line & Tips (FAQs)
Seating Depth Variation
There are many factors that can cause bullet seating depth to vary when using our Competition Seating Die. First, make sure you're comparing bullet seating depths correctly. You cannot check bullet seating uniformity by measuring cartridge overall length off the bullet point. You must use a bullet comparator, like our Instant Indicator, to compare bullet seating depths. A comparator contacts the bullet at the bore diameter contact point. This is important, as bullets can vary slightly in overall length.

We have designed the seat stem in our Competition Seating Die to contact the bullet ogive as far down as possible. Our Competition Seating Die features a bullet guide that is only .0005-.001" larger than bullet diameter. This tight fit between the bullet guide and bullet ensures that the bullet is seated straight in the case neck. It also limits how far down the ogive the seat stem can contact the bullet. If the ogive of your bullets aren't uniform, you may notice a slight difference in seating depth. Generally, this isn't a problem as modern bullets are very uniform. In rare instances, when using inexpensive bulk bullets, you may find that the bullets were made on several different machines and then blended.

If your loading press is worn, the ram may not stop in exactly the same spot each time you raise it. Obviously, this will cause variations in bullet seating depth. Although our instructions warn against it, raise the shellholder and adjust the outer, threaded die body to make light contact with the shellholder. (Make sure you keep the contact light, so you don't damage the die.) This creates a "dead length" seating chamber that is unaffected by where the shellholder stops. The only disadvantage to using the die adjusted this way, is that it may be awkward to read the micrometer if it ends up on the back side of the die.

Inadequate or excessive neck tension can also cause bullet seating depth variations. If you're using a bushing style sizing die, make sure you've selected the correct diameter bushing to size the case necks. Our current recommendation, is to select a bushing tha t is .001" smaller than the neck diameter of your loaded cartridges. (See the bushingselection newsletter in the "Tech Line" section of our website for more information.) As cases are fired over and over, their necks become progressively harder. This can cause the necks to "spring-back" excessively when they are sized, which reduces the neck tension on the bullet. Either anneal the case necks after several firings, or discard the cases and start with new, soft ones.

Heavily compressed loads can create problems when seating bullets. Our Competition Seating Die is not a powder compression die. The excessive force required to seat a bullet on a compressed load can damage the die and may cause seating depth variations. Switching to a faster burning or ball powder may eliminate the need to excessively compress the powder charge.

If you have any further questions, please feel free to call our technical support line at 607-753-3331.

 

[243winxb]

Lee's dead length seating die also contacts the shell holder/plate, acting as a stop, for a more uniform OAL.

 

[Commo]

Something simple to check -- I had a similar experience with my Redding competition die and found that I didn't have the internal spring seated correctly on reassembly...after making sure it was seated correctly the die's micrometer started responding in a linear way..

Commo

 

[ireload2]

Your post says "shell plate". Are you using some progressive like a Dillon or Hornady LNL????
If you are using a press with a shell plate there may be some variation in the shell plate since there are possibly 4 to 7 locations.
Try your die in a single stage press if you are using a multi-case holding shell plate in a progressive.

Yes my die does have a sleeve where it meets the shell plate.

The seater is also leaving a concentric ring on the bullet, a little bit below the plastic tip. I'm guess that's where the die is making contact with the bullet. Wtf. I have the same exact die that I use with Berger VLDs in my 300winmag and it doesn't do this

I'm about to just buy an arbor press and some Wilson seaters.

 

[Shaggy357]

Shell plate should be irrelevant on the seating die as it is only holding the case in position. Die should be adjusted for the cartridge, not the shell plate/holder.

A buddy and I have a full set-up to make jacketed bullets. We have played with some of the plastic tips over the years and have come up with some pretty wild assumptions for a couple of engineers. Bullet equality is similar to ammo equality. You need all the basic components to be as nearly the same as possible. So bullet jacket, core, tip, forming dies, push pins, etc all have to be of the best quality and nearly the same to make bullets the same. No matter how well you match everything, you can get some variation. In most of our bullets, the visible difference is a minute amount of jacket material that forms at the meplat and around the push pin. (pin that pushes the formed bullet out of the forming die.)

Consider the variability mentioned above, and the a couple of ways that tip could be installed. It can be inserted in the forming die and Ogive is formed around the stem inside the jacket, or it can be pushed into the open tip after bullet is formed. Meplat may, or may not, be trimmed prior to addition of the tip. Took a long time to get you to think about how the tip and the bullet are joined. Is there a minor variation in the ogive? Can the seating die make a minor variation in the ogive at or near that bullet tip? Measure the tips on some of those bullets and see how close they are to being the same.....

You want your seating stem to seat using the ogive part way down the bullet. You do NOT want the plastic tip of the bullet to come in contact with the seating stem. On some of the better dies, you may notice the seating stem is hollow above the ogive area. This is to allow for that variation in the tip of the bullet. I have used the hot glue, or JB weld method to create seating stems, but I always bore out the area in the tip to allow for the variation......

Something else to think about. Once you thunked a couple of times, scratch your head and think of some other wild assumptions on how those bullets could be made...the proprietary ones the manufacturers will not reveal.....

Steve

 

[Macropod]

I ended up making my own seater stem for my Redding 308 die. Being made of a far better grade of steel it allows the bullet to contact the stem much closer to the ogive/bearing surface junction. The standard stem is too soft to open up without it spreading the mouth of the seater stem.

The reason I did this was to reduce cartridge base to ogive variations. Works as well as this die design will allow.

 

[mike a]

Don't mean to hijack great answers with dumb questions but, is it possible the ring the op is seeing is actually a dent/deformation due to excessive /inconsistent neck tension. I wonder how much force it takes to crush the jacket into the core? I had this issue on my 243 80grn blitz until I got a larger bushing. Wilson seating die. Hope that's not to dumb a question.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

No question is dumb mike. And you are correct. We usually gage our answers on certain things being right when we have no idea if something like that is overlooked

 

[1lnbrdg]

My experience with Hornady bullets are that the lead doesn't go as far out into the tip as other bullets and they are a bit tougher to get seated without the "ring" on the bullet. Doesn't seem to be any backing behind the copper jacket and it allows deformation when seating more-so than other bullets.

Contact Redding for help.

 

[JigStick]

Sorry guys. Been busy at work.

I was using a Hornady comparator body and the appropriate insert to measure from the Ogive to the case head using 140g Amax bullets and Lapua brass that had been FL sized with a Redding Type S Bushing die with a 287 bushing, giving me .003 of neck tension. I Redding Competition seating die was stripped and cleaned when I got it. All of the primers were seated to appropriate depth with the ram prime on my Rockchucker. 39.5g or H4350 was the largest charge and no compression was noted.

I ended up just back off the micrometer each time and cranking it down during the seating of each bullet. It definitely added some time to the process, but I ended up with the seating depths I wanted. one thing that I did notice after shooting these 50 loads is that my case necks needed trimmed badly. Some of the differed by almost .015. Im sure that threw of the consistency of my neck tension some.

What VLD seater would I need for this Redding Competition die? I see a "long" and "standard" version of the VLD seating stems. Which one would I need for a 6.5x47 shooting 130 VLDs and 140 AMAXs?

I am using a single stage RockChucker press. I meant "shell Holder"….not "shell plate"

 

[snert]

#55726 is the part number for the VLD COMP seat die sliding sleeve for 6.5x47

 

[AckleymanII]

#55726 is the part number for the VLD COMP seat die sliding sleeve for 6.5x47

"How much neck tension are you running??? Usually a tight neck {or one that severely needs annealed} will give you those rings on the bullet and if that's the case then I wouldn't count on L.E. Wilson seaters to solve that one."

this is what I would look at first. Sizing .003 gives me rings on the bullet, while sizing .002 does not.

 

[RemingtonAI]

My Hornady seating die puts the ring on my 168 and 178 gr. A-MAX's. Haven't tried other brand bullets through this die though, and seating depth consistency is good. I use my Lee seater instead so I don't get the ring. Never saw any negative results from it, it's just...well...there.

 

[superlite]

I have a .308 redding comp seating die. It does this same thing on 168AMAX and the 168 TMK, it does not do it with VLD's or any other bullet including the 155 AMAX that I have run through it. I had a sticking feeling and could hear and feel a release when first raising the handle after seating a bullet, this was happening regardless of seating depth. I took the die apart and with my hands played around with the seating stem and the bullets. I noticed it almost felt like there was a "suction" for lack of a better term, almost as if the jacket was sealing on the stem and when the bullet displaced the air in the stem it created a vacuum on extraction, but, I find this highly unlikely, It leaves a slight ring on the jacket so I believe it is actually biting it ever so slightly. Anyway, I chucked an AMAX in my drill, dabbed a tiny bit of lapping compound on it, spun it in the stem for a few seconds, then I put a small piece of 0000 steel wool over the bullet and spun that in the stem for a few more seconds. This solved my problem with both bullets

 

[snert]

I have a .308 redding comp seating die. It does this same thing on 168AMAX and the 168 TMK, it does not do it with VLD's or any other bullet including the 155 AMAX. I have run through it. I had a sticking feeling and could hear and feel a release when first raising the handle after seating a bullet, this was happening regardless of seating depth. I took the die apart and with my hands played around with the seating stem and the bullets. I noticed it almost felt like there was a "suction" for lack of a better term, almost as if the jacket was sealing on the stem and when the bullet displaced the air in the stem it created a vacuum on extraction, but, I find this highly unlikely, It leaves a slight ring on the jacket so I believe it is actually biting it ever so slightly. Anyway, I chucked an AMAX in my drill, dabbed a tiny bit of lapping compound on it, spun it in the stem for a few seconds, then I put a small piece of 0000 steel wool over the bullet and spun that in the stem for a few more seconds. This solved my problem with both bullets

This is a reasonable fix.

 

[noload]

I agree with post #32.
"excessive neck tension can also cause bullet seating depth variations"
seating stem would rather nick the bullet instead of pushing it down.